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Accuracy of Certificates from VW Museum in Wolfsburg
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wbailey2112
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject: Accuracy of Certificates from VW Museum in Wolfsburg Reply with quote

So I ordered my certificate last fall and after waiting about 5 months (and dealing with my credit card that got hacked when I ordered it) my data sheet and certificate arrived on Friday. The issue that I have with it is the accuracy. It states that my Thing shipped to Mexico at the end of January '74 as a kit and that when shipped it was Lemon Yellow (not Sunshine Yellow) with a black top and interior.

Now I know that my Thing has undergone a frame off restoration by a previous owner and I have around 70 photos showing the process it went through including the repaint process. I also have snap shots of the car from the original owner in Texas. I can tell you based on these photos and looking over every nook and cranny of this vehicle yesterday that at no time has this Thing ever been Lemon or Sunshine Yellow.

What am I missing here? My suspicion is the these certificates are really not worth the paper that they are printed on. Is there a chance that some of these kits that were shipped to Mexico were actually repainted at the factory there before they shipped to dealers in the US?

At this point I'm kicking myself for spending the money on this certificate especially since it took 5 months to get it and the issues that I had to endure with my credit card company over the fraudulent charges that landed on my card after it was hacked in the process.
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ldj1002
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Accuracy of Certificates from VW Museum in Wolfsburg Reply with quote

wbailey2112 wrote:
So I ordered my certificate last fall and after waiting about 5 months (and dealing with my credit card that got hacked when I ordered it) my data sheet and certificate arrived on Friday. The issue that I have with it is the accuracy. It states that my Thing shipped to Mexico at the end of January '74 as a kit and that when shipped it was Lemon Yellow (not Sunshine Yellow) with a black top and interior.

Now I know that my Thing has undergone a frame off restoration by a previous owner and I have around 70 photos showing the process it went through including the repaint process. I also have snap shots of the car from the original owner in Texas. I can tell you based on these photos and looking over every nook and cranny of this vehicle yesterday that at no time has this Thing ever been Lemon or Sunshine Yellow.

What am I missing here? My suspicion is the these certificates are really not worth the paper that they are printed on. Is there a chance that some of these kits that were shipped to Mexico were actually repainted at the factory there before they shipped to dealers in the US?

At this point I'm kicking myself for spending the money on this certificate especially since it took 5 months to get it and the issues that I had to endure with my credit card company over the fraudulent charges that landed on my card after it was hacked in the process.



Have you doubled checked that the VIN on the certificate is actually what is on the car.
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wbailey2112
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Accuracy of Certificates from VW Museum in Wolfsburg Reply with quote

That was the first thing that I double checked thinking that either I had slipped a digit or that they did at the museum. No such luck.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Accuracy of Certificates from VW Museum in Wolfsburg Reply with quote

My certificate says that my 73 was also yellow originally. Now it is white, it has been restored and since I am the 3rd owner, I could just call the 2nd owner and ask, since he is the person who restored it. It has never bothered me that much, but I may have to question it now.
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NY thing
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Accuracy of Certificates from VW Museum in Wolfsburg Reply with quote

When I've heard the history of my car from the PO, is was said to be factory yellow, dealer orange. And the paint supports this theory. I know of another thing on Long Island that looks to be factory orange, dealer green.
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Gene Kisner
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Accuracy of Certificates from VW Museum in Wolfsburg Reply with quote

That matches my experience with the VW Museum "Birth Certificate" bunch in Germany.

Our Acapulco is 100% original. The one thing that can never be faked is the date of manufacture perforated sticker on the driver's side door pillar, the original paint shows through the perforations. Along with me, there are a bunch of AACA judges that awarded our car the HPOF badge, that also know it to be an original unrestored Acapulco.

However, the German bunch claim it to be orange.

Since I represented a German company for over 35 years, I learned a long time ago "you can always tell a German, you can just not tell him much". Also, they never let the facts get in the way of anything they claim to be true.
Remember the VW falsified "emissions test reports" last year.

When I called their hand, they would not move off of their claim. When I sent them absolute proof that they were incorrect they offered a refund upon the return of the certificate. They never mentioned they would deduct the shipping. Also they reduced the amount of repayment for fluctuation of the Euro to the US Dollar.

I think I got "fluctuated" by the entire process.

In the end I lost over one third of the original payment.

Guess they are still trying to get even for losing WW II.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Accuracy of Certificates from VW Museum in Wolfsburg Reply with quote

Gene Kisner wrote:
I learned a long time ago "you can always tell a German, you can just not tell him much".


Reminds me of a guy I worked with years ago. He had done a stint in the Israeli army and had been in Beirut twice.

He would argue about anything and everything. He finally admitted he did it to keep his sword sharp.

I got into it with him one day and finally pulled out the tech manual to prove him wrong. He said, "You can't blame this on me."

"Why not," I asked?

"Because I'm a foreigner," He replied.
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perello
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:16 am    Post subject: Re: Accuracy of Certificates from VW Museum in Wolfsburg Reply with quote

OTOH I would not ask for a certificate of a car not made in German Factory. The information they have is not reliable.
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77kafer
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Accuracy of Certificates from VW Museum in Wolfsburg Reply with quote

OTOH would mean "On The Other Hand"

But in this case it could be OTTO the guy that is giving out the wrong info.
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Eric Goodman
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Accuracy of Certificates from VW Museum in Wolfsburg Reply with quote

wbailey2112 wrote:
So I ordered my certificate last fall and after waiting about 5 months (and dealing with my credit card that got hacked when I ordered it) my data sheet and certificate arrived on Friday. The issue that I have with it is the accuracy. It states that my Thing shipped to Mexico at the end of January '74 as a kit and that when shipped it was Lemon Yellow (not Sunshine Yellow) with a black top and interior.

Now I know that my Thing has undergone a frame off restoration by a previous owner and I have around 70 photos showing the process it went through including the repaint process. I also have snap shots of the car from the original owner in Texas. I can tell you based on these photos and looking over every nook and cranny of this vehicle yesterday that at no time has this Thing ever been Lemon or Sunshine Yellow.

What am I missing here? My suspicion is the these certificates are really not worth the paper that they are printed on. Is there a chance that some of these kits that were shipped to Mexico were actually repainted at the factory there before they shipped to dealers in the US?

At this point I'm kicking myself for spending the money on this certificate especially since it took 5 months to get it and the issues that I had to endure with my credit card company over the fraudulent charges that landed on my card after it was hacked in the process.


Hi wbailey2112,

Very interesting! I run the VW Thing (Type 181) Registry. I can answer a few of your questions. I don't know if you have Registered your Thing with the Registry? We have a list of all the VIN's on our webiste.

Does your VIN have an E at the end? That would be a car built in Mexico and Exported. VW did use Kits in Mexico and Germany, but that was for very early production in Mexico and very late production in Germany, when the factories were not full assembly plants for the Type 181. Normally they would be assembled at the factory from the kit and then painted. What does your manufactured date sticker on the Thing say was the production date? The Thing is very unique, because most car are built and sold the year before the production date, but lots of Things spent months or years at the factory or a dealership before they sold. Some made in 1973 as 1974 models, sold in 1975 or 1976. This causes a lot of confusion regarding the year of the Thing...

We have learned over the years that VW did not keep good records especially with the Kits. Many Kits all over the world were made years before the Type 181 was sold and registered causing issues with the VIN.
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wbailey2112
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: Accuracy of Certificates from VW Museum in Wolfsburg Reply with quote

Eric,

In response to your questions:

Yes, I have registered my Thing with the registry (only white one in the registry that's located in Grove City, OH) and you and I have had some previous correspondence regarding bumper over riders from Mexico.

Yes, my VIN does end with an "E". The certificate states that the vehicle was manufactured in late January of 1974 and was shipped the day after manufacture as a knocked down kit to Mexico.

The manufactured date sticker on the pillar is long gone therefore I have nothing but the VIN tag under the hood and the VIN on the tunnel to go by.

Again if I study the photos that I have from the previous owners (2 old snapshots from the original owner and 70 online photos from the body off restoration) and if I inspect every piece, part, seam, under the dash, etc. I see no evidence that this Thing was ever yellow. Based on this either it was repainted white at the factory in Mexico or the certificate is not correct.
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