Allstate Trailers and Wheel Wobble

LHG · Last edited by LHG on Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:28 pm; edited 2 times in total

I have had a few single wheel trailers and think they are pretty neat. They have been towed by me behind different VWs without any problem.

So I decide to get an Allstate Trailer and fix it up to match my bus. They are probably the most common single wheel out there so they must work great, right? Sears must have sold 10,000 of 'em.

I get all done with the project and take it out for the first test drive. It's rather bouncy and seems to act up going over bumps and I never get over about 40 mph. The hitches I made were a little springy so I figured that was most of my problem. Off come the hitches, a little welding and now they are study enough to haul a much larger trailer.

Another test drive and when I hit the first bump the whole trailer starts a severe shaking/vibration thing and it feels like it going to rip off the whole back end of the bus. Shocked

It repeats again a couple of times during the test drive and you have to come to a complete stop before the shaking stops. Evidently, the wheel is doing a shimmy thing sort of like when you race a shopping cart across the lot and the wheels start to wobble back and forth. Wobble not Bounce

The next day is the Bakersfield show so I start talking to people about my problem. The FIRST person I talk to says tells me exactly what happened before I finished and said he sold his because of the wobble. Then the next person tells me HE had the same problem and had to ditch the trailer on a recent trip. Now I'm starting to get worried. I have a list of things to check/try to correct the problem but I'm thinking this may be an inherent problem.

Has anybody experienced this or know someone who has solved the problem with their trailer Question

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Brian O'Kelly
Central Coast Chapter, CA - Vintage Volkswagen Club of America
www.centralcoastvwclub.com
www.facebook.com/groups/vintagevwclub/

pyrOman · Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:22 pm Post subject:

Sounds to me like you and all those with that problem need to really check all the "moving" parts of your trailer. Something must not be as tight as it should be or is worn out. I had a 1948 Alstate box trailer attached to the club bus, a '59 panel, and have drove it to shows and stuff, at times at up to 70 mph. Without a problem! Razz

Check your frames at every corner and every weld joint. It could be cracked somewhere that you can't easily see and cousing vibration to the point of throwing the wheel off or something.

Good luck! Cool

_________________
Some people are so busy being clever they don't have time enough to be wise.

LHG · Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:38 pm Post subject:

I am honored that you used your 1000th post on this topic. Smile

As soon as I get a chance I need to...

lower air pressure in the tire (to reduce bounce)
tighten the swivel bolt
tighten the bearing
replace bearing and balance tire
lower the attachment point on bus

Add to that list from your suggestions

check welds on frame
check for being square

Hope I can get something worked out, total bummer. I too have had nothing but success pulling single wheels and am a little surprised at my predicament.

Thanks for the input.
_________________
Brian O'Kelly
Central Coast Chapter, CA - Vintage Volkswagen Club of America
www.centralcoastvwclub.com
www.facebook.com/groups/vintagevwclub/

pyrOman · Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:46 pm Post subject:

Nothing to it! Neutral

Though I'm a bit surprised myself about it, it doesn't really have much meaning so long as my contribution is worthwhile.

I will give you credit on your linkage below the bumper. As soon as I saw that picture I knew that's what I had to do. I currently have the ugly assed over-the-bumper-clamped original linkage. Not only do they look terrible but also scratch the hell out of it. Can you take a more detailed picture of them?
_________________
Some people are so busy being clever they don't have time enough to be wise.

LHG · Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:14 pm Post subject:

Below is a pic of the brackets and the optimistic text from 2 weeks ago. After the intitial test drive I put a big gusset on the side. I'll take another pic of the brackets mounted on the bus. The big stack of 10 washers to shim it out is a little funky but its really secure. I used the 2 regular bumper bolt holes and added a third forward about 6 inches. Whatever the problem is it's not the brackets Exclamation

Had these made up today. Got the holes drilled to mount them under the bumper brakets on the bus, now I have to paint 'em. They are longer than the bumper bracket underneath going tword the front and I added a third hole for lateral stability. I'll fill the channel with wide washers to act as a spacer. I should be hauling a trailer in a few days.

_________________
Brian O'Kelly
Central Coast Chapter, CA - Vintage Volkswagen Club of America
www.centralcoastvwclub.com
www.facebook.com/groups/vintagevwclub/

spookymulder · Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:28 pm Post subject:

Check and make sure the tire doesn't have any liquid tire inflater or sealant in it, on small tires they have a tendency to go out of balance with this product and do what you are describing.

LHG · Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:11 pm Post subject:

Thats a good point.
I did however put a new tire on it. I may get it balanced if they can balance a 8" wheel. The wheel bearing aren't new but they looked OK, they may need changing.
_________________
Brian O'Kelly
Central Coast Chapter, CA - Vintage Volkswagen Club of America
www.centralcoastvwclub.com
www.facebook.com/groups/vintagevwclub/

NorCalWeekender · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:35 am Post subject:

What about the mounts you made? I'd swear that I've seen other trailers with mounts that literally bolt into the bumper. Yeah, it messes up your bumper, but it might eliminate some vibration.

-Taylor (no trailer, just an observation)
_________________
9th Owner of a 1971 Tintop Westy

"Eventually, we sold to a guy for $500 who towed it away to live in it in his parents' driveway. We didn't think it would ever avoid the junk heap on that day." -The 3rd Owner, 1995

LHG · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 7:03 am Post subject:

NCR, all ideas are welcome Exclamation

After my first test drive I thought that was the problem. You can see the first mounts I came up with are just a metal diving boards and they were quite springy! After the rebuild on those they are now much sturdier than the bumper is. Jump on them now and there is no bend at all and the whole bus moves insync.

One of the guys I talked to who had the same problem did have his trailer mounted to the bumper. He dumped his trailer on the side of the road after a wooble scare and had it hauled home.

I also hoped I put the trailer together better than I spelled the titile to this thread Shocked

_________________
Brian O'Kelly
Central Coast Chapter, CA - Vintage Volkswagen Club of America
www.centralcoastvwclub.com
www.facebook.com/groups/vintagevwclub/

hazetguy · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:27 am Post subject:

in the spirit of the PW Extrordinaire, i submit this Smile

:

well, i don't have a trailer like you speak of, but what about the seeming reality (based on the pic) that there is no weight in the trailer? having a trailer for show may be nice, but this may be part of the cause of the bouncing. i know someone who has the same trailer, actually uses it to haul stuff, and hasn't complained of it hopping around.

NorCalWeekender · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:05 am Post subject:

pyrOman · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:13 am Post subject:

splitpile · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:13 am Post subject:

The biggest problem I have seen is trailer height, the higher the front mount the worse they track. I have 3 different 1 wheel trailers and have pulled them all over the country (western at least) with nothing more then worn out tires. I have found that the front needs to be angled down to help the rear wheel track better. Also have never had any luck pulling one empty. Throw a 80 bag of cement in it over the tire and see how it does
_________________
Stocking distributor of "The Funky Green Panels"
www.BUSTORATION.com metal and more for your bus
"no more hacking my sig line"

crofty · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:37 am Post subject:

Brian and I have discussed this at length,but here's my experience. I have the clam shell allstate same as Ronnies and I too have had a lot of problems with it. As a matter of fact I had to have it towed home from BYOB last year!
It doesn't seem to matter if it's empty or full it will wobble back and forth. (When we left for Jerome we saw ronnies doing the same thing on his way to work). You have to pull over and start agin to stop it from doing that.
I have since replaced the wheel bearings and races (available at NAPA) and pulled it about a mile or so with out a problem. I'm still too leary to take it any further and haven't since last April but if it does it again, you'll see it on the Samba classifieds!
BTW, all parts have been checked for wear and trueness, not to mention greased and then greased some more. I'll try to drag it around this weekend and see what happens, if I get back from picking up my '62 early enough.
_________________
Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.

LHG · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:19 am Post subject:

Hazetguy wrote. "but what about the seeming reality (based on the pic) that there is no weight in the trailer? having a trailer for show may be nice, but this may be part of the cause of the bouncing. i know someone who has the same trailer, actually uses it to haul stuff, and hasn't complained of it hopping around." Is that a mild dig Question

That's OK I can take it, and I will take stuff in it when it's working Smile

And I should be able to take an empty trailer home after selling ALL my stuff at the swap meet.

I did get two 70lbs bags of sand. Put tried them in the front, back, side to side, etc. Didn't seem to help the wobble. The bounce with an empty trailer can be solved by lowering the air pressure from 80 to 40.

Splitpile wrote, "The biggest problem I have seen is trailer height, the higher the front mount the worse they track." I have always heard and mounted my single wheel trailers level so the wheel would swivel when backing and turning. Lowering the front may help and is on my list.
Thanks for all the suggestions
_________________
Brian O'Kelly
Central Coast Chapter, CA - Vintage Volkswagen Club of America
www.centralcoastvwclub.com
www.facebook.com/groups/vintagevwclub/

splitpile · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:12 pm Post subject:

Bryan S. · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:57 pm Post subject:

Here's a web site that should be of some help. www.singlewheel.com

LHG · Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:59 pm Post subject:

Update: Problem Solved Exclamation

As a reminder, I was having trouble with Wheel Wobble (not bounce). It was so bad it made the trailer completely unsafe. Evil or Very Mad

I also found it's a fairly common problem and has to do with the rear wheel geometry.

For me to call the problem solved, the trailer had to be towable empty. Example, take empty trailer to pick up load, load up and drive home.

The most common solution mentioned for wheel wobble was to lower the front mounting point. What this does is to make the wheel trail behind the 360 degree pivot point and makes it track better. The limiting factor with this is the front arms on an allstate are very low when everything is level and there is a practical limit on how low you want it, especially with a bus(stock height).

After some experimentation here is what I ended up with.

1. Lowering mounting point a few inches at the bumper. One negative side effect of this was making trailer unlevel. It was sloped forward to much for my taste, I like things as level as possible.

2. Tigthened the pivot bolt as much as possible while still allowing the wheel to swivel.

At this point I could still get the wheel to wobble, but it was much better than before, so I was on the right track.

3. To level the trailer and make the wheel trail even more (increase angle D, see below), I shortened the spring and increased the rubber bumper. If there isn't enough spring after more testing, I can get a longer bolt and increase the spring length back to stock.

After these mods I have taken the trailer over some very rough roads at all speeds (while empty) and haven't had any problems. I think it's fixed. Very Happy

Conclusions: Single wheels work best when...
1. Line E is level, or even better, sloped slightly toward the front This line goes through the swivel plane.
2. Angle D, the greater the better, this angle is formed by a vertical line through the 360 degree pivot bolt and a line intersecting the wheel axle and the arm pivot point. Lowering the front increases this angle.
3. Tighten pivot bolt as much as possible while still allowing the wheel to swivel.

Temporary hitch setup for testing.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions!
_________________
Brian O'Kelly
Central Coast Chapter, CA - Vintage Volkswagen Club of America
www.centralcoastvwclub.com
www.facebook.com/groups/vintagevwclub/

nick1 · Samba Member Joined: June 07, 2002 Posts: 2

i just got a allstate trailer but i need a new tire. did you have to get one for yours. and if so where is a good place.

chickengeorge · Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:18 pm Post subject:


Hello! Log in or Register \| Help \| Donate \| Buy Shirts	See all banner ads \| Advertise on TheSamba.com

	Forum Index -> General/Chat	All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time Page: 1, 2, 3 Next
Page 1 of 3