| Author |
Message |
Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
|
 Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Running better with advanced timing |
 |
|
[quote="VOLKSWAGNUT"]
| Sharp64 wrote: |
| Slow 1200 wrote: |
| can you describe what's your carb setting method? usually one does it after you set point gap and timing, so just wondering |
After setting the timing I adjust the idle to get it idling, then adjust the air/fuel and then readjust the idle. Only way I can get it to idle is by having the idle screen early all the way screwed in. And if the timing is set at the 7.5 mark it really runs like crap. Hard acceleration makes it stumble and pull really quick on the throttle arm and it will pop through the carb. Acceleration is not good and it winds out quickly before the normal shift points. |
And.. that describes a Vacuum leak... and would explain the timing issue..
This may be the issue. I did try regapping at .016. Took a couple of tries but got it so the gauge lightly dragged. Hard to get started. Did and set it at the 7.5. No better. Checked dwell for giggles and it was barely low.. 45*. I don't think the dwell is as far off as Thomas thought. Not sure, but couldn't get it to run well no matter how I adjusted the carb. Turned it off, reset it relying on dwell. Put it 50 dwell and reset timing to 7.5. Still crap. Reset it at 10 and runs great again.
Sprayed again around the heads intake, base of carb and no issues. Spray close to the throttle shaft and no change. Spray directly on the nut between the choke plate and carb and idle changes. There is some play there, but I thought it was normal. Maybe I'm just dealing with a loose bushing after all causing a vacuum leak? Think I may swap out for the carb I rebuilt. If its having issues as well I may just get the leak down kit and run some tests. If the engine is up to it I may just pull the trigger on a set of dual carbs before dumping money into rebushing a carb that's going to just get taken on eventually.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
thomas.
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2010
Posts: 1291
Location: South West (Pa.)
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Running better with advanced timing |
|
|
| I thought it might be worth a try. There is another thread on here that talks about what I was saying. If your mix screw can be turned all the way in without stalling that is an indication of a vacuum leak like vw nut said. good luck |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: Running better with advanced timing |
|
|
| thomas. wrote: |
| I thought it might be worth a try. There is another thread on here that talks about what I was saying. If your mix screw can be turned all the way in without stalling that is an indication of a vacuum leak like vw nut said. good luck |
No, if I screw the air fuel in it dies for sure. If there's a vacuum leak it's pretty minor.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thomas.
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2010
Posts: 1291
Location: South West (Pa.)
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Running better with advanced timing |
|
|
| Your throttle cable might be incorrect length. It shouldn't be adjusted in that far. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Running better with advanced timing |
|
|
| thomas. wrote: |
| Your throttle cable might be incorrect length. It shouldn't be adjusted in that far. |
Huh? I can disconnect the cable and it's in that far....
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
67rustavenger 
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9756
Location: Oregon
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Running better with advanced timing |
|
|
| Sharp64 wrote: |
| thomas. wrote: |
| Your throttle cable might be incorrect length. It shouldn't be adjusted in that far. |
Huh? I can disconnect the cable and it's in that far.... |
Huh? What does the length of the cable have to do with the idle mixture screw?
Sharp, FWIW I checked my timing a couple nights ago. I have an 010 non vac dist. The idle timing was above 15° advanced with the advance 36° all in at 3300rpm. Sometimes the engine wants what it wants. My problem is recognizing what my engine wants 
Have a great weekend!
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thomas.
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2010
Posts: 1291
Location: South West (Pa.)
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Running better with advanced timing |
|
|
| Sharp64 wrote: |
| thomas. wrote: |
| Your throttle cable might be incorrect length. It shouldn't be adjusted in that far. |
Huh? I can disconnect the cable and it's in that far.... |
You were saying you had to have your idle screw turned all the way in to get it to idle. I was referring to this photo I saw of your engine .
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Running better with advanced timing |
|
|
That doesn't make sense to me. The throttle cable shoudnt be pulling back on the throttle arm when it's at rest. Mine doesn't.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thomas.
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2010
Posts: 1291
Location: South West (Pa.)
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Running better with advanced timing |
|
|
There should be a little tension on it so you don't have to turn your idle screw in all the way. Here's a photo of my current carb. It's locked on the cable end about half way. If I made the cable a little tighter I would have to back off on the screw so it wouldn't idle as high.
I only mentioned it because of your mention of idle adjustment.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Running better with advanced timing |
|
|
| Sharp64 wrote: |
| That doesn't make sense to me. The throttle cable shoudnt be pulling back on the throttle arm when it's at rest. Mine doesn't. |
I think what he's saying is sometimes folks hook their throttle cable up and pull it so tight onto through the barrel connector on the carb throttle arm, it pulls the throttle off the step cam at rest. I've seen it before. You can't fine tune the mixture if the throttle cable is holding open the throttle plate.
He suggesting that you make sure your cable isn't doing that. Some folks go as far as to loosening the throttle cable barrel nut to insure that's not the case and leave it loose while fine tuning the idle, mixture screws.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thomas.
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2010
Posts: 1291
Location: South West (Pa.)
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:12 am Post subject: Re: Running better with advanced timing |
|
|
| Zoom in on the photo of Sharps engine a couple of frames back. I'm saying I think his cable is too long. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:22 am Post subject: Re: Running better with advanced timing |
|
|
Cable is adjusted so that the idle screw rests on the step cam.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
turbotype1
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2005
Posts: 582
Location: seacoast
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Running better with advanced timing |
|
|
If it runs better at 10 degrees, leave it at 10 degrees.....
Trying to figure out why it won't run right at 7.5 degrees is a waste of your time.....
Most motors are a lot happier with a touch more timing .....
As long as there is no detonation
Set it at 10 degrees and enjoy the ride
_________________
| 117harv wrote: |
This new fad of get it the lowest, or run it with the worst looks, (patina) isn't cool, it's for the hey everyone look at me crowd, i'm driving a beat down ratty, unsafe, VW, how cool am I ???...your not....
|
Pissing off the purists since 1997
Wanted: Boyd Motors plate frame
57 Turbo Oval Sliding rag
67 13 window delux walk-thru- now 21
64 all original for the misses
83 Sinka m-TDI diesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Running better with advanced timing |
|
|
Since quite a few people chimed in on this one, I figured I somewhat owed it to put an update in here. Over the past week, I have been having fits with this. Lots of stalling and refusing to idle. Checked, rechecked and rechecked timing and finally as I was sitting in the driveway at my inlaws house the car starts the "death lope" like its going to die. I hop out, rev it a couple of times and it keeps going back to dying. Decide to literally hit the carb with something and it starts running better.... My guess is sticky needle valve. While this may not seem to have relevance on the timing issue, it will come. Today I took some time to take the carb apart, blow everything out and mess around with the needle valve. Get it up and running, take it for a spin, everything is good again.
I decided to swap out the aftermarket fuel pump and put the Piersburg that I just bought in. Aftermarket rebuild kit obviously as pressure was like 10psi. Turn it off, fuel is spewing from every orifice. Well yay. Even with 6 gaskets, the pressure is still over 7psi so I decide to take a mm or two out of the length of the rod and got the pressure down to just over 4 psi. I'll tweak this another day....
Feeling ballsy, I decide to put the later 30PICT-1 that came on a 1500 that I am going to try and rebuild. Has the power jet and I had rebuilt it about two months ago. Takes me about an hour to get the cable hooked up as it doesn't want to work with the WW accelerator return kit I bought, so I finally get it to work with just the spring and nothing else. Also had to bend the cable a little to keep the spring from binding. Upon firing up, I noticed that it immediately seemed to run better. Doesn't pop or bog like it does when I pull down hard on the throttle arm of the other carb. Get it idling right and take it out. Runs really nice. Decide to check a couple of things like the timing and its still at 10* TDC. For giggles I put it at 7.5* TDC and its still idling very well. Take it for a drive and its very nice.
So two things I think are going on. First is the original carb I was using DOES have a worse vacuum leak than I thought. Also, in dicking around with the throttle cable, I think there may be a good chance that the cable is in fact too long as Thomas pointed out. Not sure how that would effect the first carb, but getting the spring cover and little piece that pushes up again the cable end to work was an effort in futility and I think its because the cable is 5-10mm too long. Do these just stretch over time or is it possible its the incorrect/poor quality cable?
Thanks for the help from anyone that offered. I may still mess around with the timing a little to see how it runs better a little advanced or if its starts pinging. Also plan on messing with the carb a bit more and jet it down some. I had added a 55 idle jet to the previous carb and carried it over to this one, but have a feeling I won't need that with this carb.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Running better with advanced timing |
|
|
Which Pierburg fuel pump did you rebuild? A square top with the 4 screws on top or the domed top?
Before you hack away more at the fuel pump push rod, let me know. I have a few original Pierburg main diaphragm springs. All you need to do is swap the "new" one out w/the old one. You're pressure will drop down to 3psi.
Cusser on the site used the Wolfsburg West fuel pump rebuild kit on his square top Pierburg pump. He had 6-7 PSI. I sent him a used spring. He swapped them and got 3psi with no spacer gaskets.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
