Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Valve adjust easy with pics
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12542

Zundfolge1432 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

Seems to be a lot of confusion lately regarding valve adjustment, which way to turn the engine, how to locate TDC #1. I'll go by the manual but deviate only slightly by showing a foolproof way to locate TDC, it works because of valve timing and is not dependent on the distributor rotor which may or may not be installed correctly, what if its wrong wouldn't you like to be sure about where to start or to know if some piss ant before you screwed things up? Lets have a look.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


We start by just bringing the pulley around and lining up the furthest mark to the left with the split line of the case. At this point you have a 50/50 chance of being on TDC on number 1 cylinder, why? Because 1and 3 are both fully up.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Looking at the TDC mark call that 12 o'clock so make another mark at 6 o'clock

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now turn clockwise that's to the right watching the factory TDC mark go down to about 5 o'clock, that's about 150 degrees you'll see #1 exhaust valve begin to open




There's #1, its open so I know for a fact I was at #1 before I turned it off the mark, by turning it I just verified what this cylinder is doing and I'm ready to start the valve adjustment now


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Of course we are using a .006 feeler gauge.

So I turn it back from 5 o'clock back to TDC that's the mark straight up 12


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by Zundfolge1432 on Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:56 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12542

Zundfolge1432 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

If I had been on 3 instead of 1 I can simply rotate the engine one full turn, thats 360 degrees in either direct and I'll be on 1, that's a fact.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12542

Zundfolge1432 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

So I've done both intake and exhaust on number 1 and its time to rotate half a turn counterclockwise and bring that mark I made at 6 o'clock up to 12.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now I'll adjust both valves here. Satisfied I'm going to turn it half a turn counterclockwise bringing that factory TDC mark back to the case split line
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now adjust number 3 intake and exhaust.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Nice almost done, now rotate counterclockwise half a turn bring that 6 o'clock mark you made back to 12 and adjust those two valves on number 4 cylinder.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12542

Zundfolge1432 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

Now at this point you could say I'm done, but I'd run through it one more time just checking with the gauge, sometimes they change just a bit. Here's a good way to balance the wrench, feeler gauge and and screwdriver. Use a screwdriver to help hold the wrench, you need three hands Very Happy
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now if your distributor drive gear is located correctly it would look like this using a 009 # 1 comes out around 4 or 5 o'clock on rim of distributor.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Just for reference I made a small yellow mark to show number 1 where rotor is pointing even with cap on. The factory vacuum advance distributors if indexed correctly will show rotor pointing to 1 at around 2 o'clock position on distributor rim. That rim mark is sometimes hard to see, it's there look.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mark tucker
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23950
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
mark tucker is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

why all the knotchwatching turning this way and that way do this do that. there is a eazer way and it also gives better results. and you dont have to look at the pully, dist, or spin it backwards somany degrees. EI IC..... ex open about 1/4~3/8" adjust the intake next to it. turn crank in the std direction till the intakes open and is closing.stop when the intake is about 1/4~3/8" from being closed ( closing, not opening) , now you adjust that cylinders exhaust. repeat on all 3 cylinders. or when you get to know what your doing you can do them as they come around. it's eazer and accounts for the spring pressures on the other lobes and the bearing clearances and system flex witch it the way it is when it'a running. as I recall these engines are not supposed to be run backwards as that pumps oil from the bearings or filter back through the pump and in to the sump leaving...air in the system and bring comtaminates traped in the oil filter into the pump.... the engine now runs smoother sounds better and has a better power balance.

if your cam bearings have .005" clearance witch is common.and you do it the knotch ,turn this way &turn that way and stand on your head counting degrees that .005" can be added or subtracted from the lash you think your setting.. do it the other way and the system is preloaded as it is when it's running.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12542

Zundfolge1432 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

Not counting how to locate TDC I tried to just go by the book per the manual, why? Because you have a vast cross section of people here. I am actually trying to help someone learn. There are several different ways to adjust valve clearances but why not go with what is shown in all of the manuals. I know you want to impress all here with your vast knowledge and command of the English language but maybe you could give this one a pass. Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
heimlich Premium Member
VWNOS.com


Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 7272
Location: Houston, Texas
heimlich is online now 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

I like it. A bit more on how to find TDC would be helpful and how you know you found it. Finding TDC is the most important part of following many instructions since everything after it assumes you found TDC correctly.

Also, maybe a bit on how to use feeler gauges. This is always tricky for me because you can put the 006 in there until it is so tight it is hard to pull out. This seems wrong. It seems to be best right in between where it is too tight to pull out and tight enough to touch when you slide it around. I always like to take the .005, .006, and .007 out to check after I adjusted the valves to make sure the 007 won't fit and the 005 will.

I have also noticed that when you have the feeler gauge in and you tighten down the nut a bit some of the gap is lost. It seems it loosens up a bit probably because the nut is pulling back on the screw so a little extra compensates for that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bnam
Samba Member


Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 3383
Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
bnam is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

When the rockers are loose, I make sure to manually move them in/out and make sure I am measuring with the rocker out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ashman40
Samba Member


Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16364
Location: North Florida, USA
ashman40 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

Well done. This one deserves to be a sticky.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road Sad }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tim Donahoe
Samba Member


Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11775
Location: Redding, CA
Tim Donahoe is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

This teaching was perfect for the novice to understand a simple method to insure you are at tdc on number one. It was also enlightening to those who have adjusted valves many times

Good show.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Frodge
Samba Member


Joined: October 04, 2006
Posts: 2061
Location: Dump
Frodge is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

Is there a mark on a stock pulley 180 degrees from the tdc notch #1? My pulley has red marks btdc as shown in this pic and around 180 degrees from thee...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rockerarm
Samba Member


Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 3552
Location: Los Angeles
rockerarm is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

Nope. No genuine VW pulley had factory marks to indicate what you asked, which are marks 180 degrees opposite from #1/#3 TDC.
Your nomenclature is wrong as the other marks would be TDC for cyl's #2/#4.
Hope this helps, Bill.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
11Bravo
Samba Member


Joined: March 04, 2017
Posts: 185
Location: New York
11Bravo is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

mark tucker wrote:
why all the knotchwatching turning this way and that way do this do that. there is a eazer way and it also gives better results. and you dont have to look at the pully, dist, or spin it backwards somany degrees. EI IC..... ex open about 1/4~3/8" adjust the intake next to it. turn crank in the std direction till the intakes open and is closing.stop when the intake is about 1/4~3/8" from being closed ( closing, not opening) , now you adjust that cylinders exhaust. repeat on all 3 cylinders. or when you get to know what your doing you can do them as they come around. it's eazer and accounts for the spring pressures on the other lobes and the bearing clearances and system flex witch it the way it is when it'a running. as I recall these engines are not supposed to be run backwards as that pumps oil from the bearings or filter back through the pump and in to the sump leaving...air in the system and bring comtaminates traped in the oil filter into the pump.... the engine now runs smoother sounds better and has a better power balance.



if your cam bearings have .005" clearance witch is common.and you do it the knotch ,turn this way &turn that way and stand on your head counting degrees that .005" can be added or subtracted from the lash you think your setting.. do it the other way and the system is preloaded as it is when it's running.

I do know adjusting valves can be a struggled for some. I'm old and have been doing valve adjustments for at least 55 years. I always adjust all engines with solid lifters one way. Much like the the poster I quoted. I only turn the engine in it's normal rotation direction and I use EOIC which he meant. Maybe a bit more turning but you can do one bank at a time instead of bouncing around the engine. Lots of ways to do it but the EOIC works with even hot cams.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12542

Zundfolge1432 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

I think it's great that you and mark seem to know more than the engineers that designed the car. As I said before we are showing that which is approved in the official workshop manual not counting locating TDC #1. Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
eashc
Samba Member


Joined: April 10, 2012
Posts: 340
Location: Ventura County
eashc is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:57 am    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

what does the EOIC mean?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vamram Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7795
Location: NOVA
vamram is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

eashc wrote:
what does the EOIC mean?


https://www.google.com/search?q=eoic+valve+adjustm...p;ie=UTF-8

Doesn't seem any simpler than the procedure Zund documented. To me, anyway.
_________________
"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke

“If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”
Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...languishing since 2022.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Floating VW
Samba Member


Joined: April 28, 2015
Posts: 1614
Location: The South Zone
Floating VW is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

Exhaust Open/Intake Closed

Has anyone ever compared the two methods to see if there is a significant difference in the resulting lash? I mean, if there is 0.001" or more difference between the Bently method and the EOIC method, I would consider that significant. But if it's only 0.00015", then I would say either method is fine.
_________________
"It's time you started treating people as individuals, rather than mathematically predictable members of an aggregate set, regardless of how well that works."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cusser
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 32485
Location: Hot Arizona
Cusser is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

Nice write-up Zundfolge !!!


Frodge wrote:
Is there a mark on a stock pulley 180 degrees from the tdc notch #1? My pulley has red marks btdc as shown in this pic
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Frodge: your photo of YOUR pulley shows your notch mark at 0 TDC for #1 (or #3). As you look clockwise at the pulley rim, your next mark is 7.5 BTDC and the next one close to that is 10 BTDC.

Completely opposite from your 0 TDC mark YOU MAKE your own mark for BDC (also called TDC for #2 and #4, for adjusting valves for #2 and #4)
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Molly1973
Samba Member


Joined: June 22, 2012
Posts: 159

Molly1973 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

This is a good write up! Thank you for sharing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Frodge
Samba Member


Joined: October 04, 2006
Posts: 2061
Location: Dump
Frodge is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: Valve adjust easy with pics Reply with quote

Cusser, thanks. I'm aware it's at tdc. My question is about the red paint marks,. The one you can see if n the pic, and one about 180/degrees from there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2024, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.