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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6621 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:03 pm Post subject: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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All ties rods and ball joints have been replaced and now the steering wheel is not centered.
Is this something an alignment shop can fix or should I be concerned they will return the car off centered?
Is there something I should ask for when having them to do the alignment so that everything is adjusted correctly? |
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57BLITZ Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012 Posts: 2385 Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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Take a look at fig.85 found on page 45 in your Bentley manual . . . it tells you EXACTLY what you need to do! _________________ Jesucristo es mi Seņor y Salvador! |
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ach60 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2001 Posts: 4139 Location: Santa Maria
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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:05 am Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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The Steering wheel plastic is old and fragile, do not remove it.
The steering wheel is off to one side you simply need to make some tie rod adjustments.
Adjusting one tie rod a 1/4 turn shorter, and adjusting the other tie rod a 1/4 turn longer will change the steering wheel angle,
but keep the toe adjustment the same. _________________ Good Luck
Al |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6621 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:12 am Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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57BLITZ wrote: |
Take a look at fig.85 found on page 45 in your Bentley manual . . . it tells you EXACTLY what you need to do! |
I do have a Bentley. I'll take a look there. Thanks. |
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catahoula lou Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2008 Posts: 594 Location: south of Silver Springs, NV
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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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In case you need to adjust toe-in after centering your steering wheel, this is the technique that I use:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=665755&highlight=
Best,
Thom _________________ 1 great wife
2 Catahoula Leopard Dogs (Mahogany Star and Spartan) - RIP Lucy, Braveheart, & Dusty!
1 1959 mango green Ragtop Bug (the "Mango")
1 1958 pantina red Lowlight Ghia (the "Chili Pepper")
Still looking for:
(1) My Dad's 1955 356 (he raced it amateur-class at Riverside and other courses during 1950s),
(2) My parent's black 1955 hardtop bug (CA license plate FWC 201 or FWG 201), and
(3) My parent's agave green 1957 ragtop bug (CA license plate LFK 734). |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31379 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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kawfee wrote: |
All ties rods and ball joints have been replaced and now the steering wheel is not centered.
Is this something an alignment shop can fix or should I be concerned they will return the car off centered?
Is there something I should ask for when having them to do the alignment so that everything is adjusted correctly? |
If you replaced the ties rods/ends and ball joints, then it needs an alignment. If that was done at a shop, then an alignment should have been part of that. But an alignment mechanic would KNOW that turning the tie rods in opposite directions gets the steering wheel centered during the toe-in adjustment process.
If you did the R&R yourself, any front end alignment shop should know about centering the steering wheel, but wouldn't hurt to remind them of that when you took it in. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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57BLITZ Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012 Posts: 2385 Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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kawfee wrote: |
57BLITZ wrote: |
Take a look at fig.85 found on page 45 in your Bentley manual . . . it tells you EXACTLY what you need to do! |
I do have a Bentley. I'll take a look there. Thanks. |
Be sure to read the part about centering the steering box BEFORE you set the "toe" . . . the steering will probably have minor, annoying issues if you don't!
THEN, center the steering wheel as part of the alignment. _________________ Jesucristo es mi Seņor y Salvador! |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11740 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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Just take the car to an alignment shop that is proficient with vintage cars. You need an alignment. It's a pretty standard procedure.
Pay the money and know that your tires will last much longer. I know that some of the more experienced folks on this forum can do this job, but the custom alignment shop I go to uses state of the art equipment, and when he's done, my front end is perfect.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6621 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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That was my plan but I wanted to make sure they fix the centering issue. if they just align it the tie rods will be off center.
Tim Donahoe wrote: |
Just take the car to an alignment shop that is proficient with vintage cars. You need an alignment. It's a pretty standard procedure.
Pay the money and know that your tires will last much longer. I know that some of the more experienced folks on this forum can do this job, but the custom alignment shop I go to uses state of the art equipment, and when he's done, my front end is perfect.
Tim |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5998 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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kawfee wrote: |
That was my plan but I wanted to make sure they fix the centering issue. if they just align it the tie rods will be off center.
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Not if they do it right. That's part of the alignment process.
They will have to set camber and toe to spec, then take a test drive. If the wheel is off center when driving straight ahead they can adjust the tie rods the same amount in opposite directions to center the steering wheel while keeping the toe setting the same. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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TX-73 Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2013 Posts: 1133 Location: Texas
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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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57BLITZ wrote: |
kawfee wrote: |
57BLITZ wrote: |
Take a look at fig.85 found on page 45 in your Bentley manual . . . it tells you EXACTLY what you need to do! |
I do have a Bentley. I'll take a look there. Thanks. |
Be sure to read the part about centering the steering box BEFORE you set the "toe" . . . the steering will probably have minor, annoying issues if you don't!
THEN, center the steering wheel as part of the alignment. |
^this^
The first thing I did when I aligned my car was to ensure the steering box was centered. There is also a sequence to setting first camber then toe if I remember right. Very last thing is to reset the steering wheel itself if, as in my case, the steering has been taken apart.
Bentley does describe the re-centering process as mentioned in the posts above - equal and opposite turns on the tie rods to ensure alignment remains intact on vehicles that have not had the steering wheel removed. In fact I think Bentley does not recommend pulling the steering wheel at all for centering. _________________ My 1973 Standard Beetle Build SOLD
Click to view image |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5998 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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TX-73 wrote: |
Bentley does describe the re-centering process as mentioned in the posts above - equal and opposite turns on the tie rods to ensure alignment remains intact on vehicles that have not had the steering wheel removed. In fact I think Bentley does not recommend pulling the steering wheel at all for centering. |
That's correct, but if it's ever been screwed with before then you need to fix it because there might not be enough adjustment in the tie rods to correct a wheel that's been pulled and re-clocked.
Especially if you've replaced a steering box (some of the TRW ones seem to have the notch for the flange mount about 90 degrees off from the stock VW ones), that's the opportunity to correct the steering wheel.
So, make sure steering BOX is centered (this is not by eyeballing the front wheels and how straight they look, this is by lining up the center marking ring on the steering box with the seam in the steering box housing). When the steering box is centered, the steering wheel needs to be centered. If you center the steering box but the wheel is not level, then and only then can you pull the steering wheel and center it.
Now once you go get your alignment you may find that when driving straight on a flat road the steering wheel is off center.
This is when you fix it by adjusting the tie rods to center the wheel and NOT by pulling the wheel off and re-installing it level.
However the alignment tech should do this as part of the job is to take a test drive and check all that out. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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Tom Butler Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2016 Posts: 287 Location: Bay Area, California
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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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I just recently replaced my tie rods and center drag link (Super beetle DEATH SHAKE)
I aligned it myself afterward by putting some plastic bags under the front wheels (so they could rotate easier) and then I put jackstands on all four corners and made a box with twine to measure off of.
Toe'd in 1 millish on each front.
havent had any issues with it (drove it on the free way and everything)
So it can be done. Just takes some fiddling.
Im sure its not 100 percent laser lined or anything but it has worked fine for me and I plan to keep an eye on them to see if they wear weird or anything. _________________ 1971 Super Beetle
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=674120
Proud Member Pata De Perro Vw Club
iowegian wrote: |
Instead of converting your car to a different color, why not just buy one that is a color you like? |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11740 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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A proper, professional alignment will automatically center your steering wheel. That is, unless the steering wheel was removed and somehow put back on willy-nilly, without the wheels straight ahead.
My steering wheel was off by about 60 degrees when I first got my bug. The tires were also worn on one side of each tire. I got it aligned and the steering wheel being centered was a part of the job. They didn't remove and re-install the wheel. They simply aligned the front end.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31379 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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Installing all that stuff and having alignment and steering wheel centering being OK would be rarer than O.J. finding "the real killer" !!!! _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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eashc Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2012 Posts: 340 Location: Ventura County
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31379 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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I like that idea; looks easier than with the homemade wood jig I constructed. So: Note to Self. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15987 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:32 am Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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There are three variables here and I've yet to see an alignment shop take all three into consideration.
Centered steering wheel
Proper front end alignment; toe-in. Caster and camber should also be checked but don't impact the steering wheel alignment.
Wheels straight ahead centered in range of motion (L-R)
The alignment shop will likely take into consideration the last two items. The wheels will be straight ahead and in the center of the range of motion, but if the steering wheel isn't centered, oh well.
One shop properly aligned my front end and had my steering wheel centered, but the wheels were centered with about 60% range of motion to one side and only 40% to the other. That was annoying.
The worst was a shop that only did the toe-in adjustment and called it done. That's all they did. _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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57BLITZ Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012 Posts: 2385 Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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ashman40 wrote: |
One shop properly aligned my front end and had my steering wheel centered, but the wheels were centered with about 60% range of motion to one side and only 40% to the other. That was annoying.
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That sucks doesn't it Ashman? Take a Bug to a shop "proficient in alignment on classic vehicles" only to have it returned with the job done incorrect/incomplete!!!!
Annoying on two counts . . . not only is the turning radius different side-to-side, but also the gears in the steering box are designed with a different pre-load when centered . . . improves the feel when driving in a straight-ahead direction.
That's the reason it is mentioned in the Bentley!
I have trust issues with most of the "professionals" that work in the typical repair shops . . . seems that good help is ridiculously difficult to find! _________________ Jesucristo es mi Seņor y Salvador! |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6621 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Replaced all tie rods - Steering Wheel off Center- What to do? |
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I took my vehicle to have it aligned. I told them specifically that the turning radius was off on one side. They gave it back to me and told me it was the rear wheel being out of align to blame.
I checked it and it was still off. Come to find out the alignment shop aligns the front tires based on the steering wheel. The center the steering wheel and then they align the tires. The are going to fix it for me by aligning it to the gearbox.
Keep this in mind if you redo your tie rods. Let the mechanic know. |
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