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Message |
KollynnBlackpaw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 528
Location: Hubbard, Oregon
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 Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
So, you note that the connectors are brand new.....but that the metal female connectors inside fit too loose on the male pins in the injector right?
Question: how new is "NEW"?
The reason I ask is because I am trying to get examples of how fast the original connectors fail for people. Every situation is a little different.
D-jet is maybe the 2nd earliest electronic port injection system. But it is the first to reach true mass production with a degree of success.
I have been bitching about the D-jet female connectors for going on 25 years. I have always had some "connectivity" issues with them in cars that get driven a lot and get worked on a lot.
Back in the 80s a lot of the other fuel injection systems on newer cars had their own reliability issues as they got older so in my early years with D-jet......I figured "some" reliability issues were just the cost of doing business. And I figured a good portion of the issues were simply the fact that I did not know everything possible with the system.....because being pre-internet......there was just not much useful information I could find.
Cut to about 1999....my first forays into the internet and starting massive (and poorly implemented) searches to find the ECU terminals to build a new wiring harness for my D-jet system...........I was searching on Tyco/AMP's huge website......and stumbled across a document from around 1975 or so from AMP and Bosch. Do not quote me on the date of publication. I gathered that the testing they were reporting had been done years earlier and the report was published later.
As D-jet production was winding down, L-jet was already in production along with several versions of CIS, digijet was being developed.........the engineers at AMP/Bosch were doing some lab testing to track down some of the reliability issues that D-jet had.
In a nutshell, they stated that the female connectors could become loose and had either degraded (higher resistance) or intermittent or total loss of connection......with as little as 25 plugging and unplugging cycles.
They went on to say that some failed in even less cycles due to loosening from fatigue caused by heat cycles and vibration.
All of that rang alarm bells because what they were describing.....I had fought with for years on my D-jet systems spanning numerous 411, 412, type 3 and 914's.
These issues were not happening with the newer L-jet style terminal......because......the L-jet style terminals.....called "dual cantilever "....have actual leaf SPRINGS on each side of the contacts to always have a tight contact through a long lifespan no matter how many times they get plug cycled or heat cycled.
The L-jet type of terminal is what ALL injection systems use (except some GM crap through the 80s and 90s used) to this very day.
When I first mentioned this back in the early to mid 2000s on the shop talk forums....there was a lot of pushback because some thought I was bashing the D-jet system.
I was not bashing the D-jet system....just the early connector system.
To be fair.....the original D-jet connectors work fine...when NEW.....but they do not age well.
I have been looking for years to try and find that document again.
D-jet can run so much more reliably with a modern connector. Ray |
Hi Ray! The female connectors are brand new, however the plastic connectors are the originals. I simply replaced the spades inside the plastic with new connectors as I had them on hand and knew about how the connectors are, in general, junk. I had not thought about the fact the spacing on the metal connector would need to be adjusted to get them to truly fit on there, even when they felt tight on the connector.
I will say the plastic connectors are pretty messed up, and don't stay in on their own basically at all. I have another square that is almost entirely original, down to the 90 degree plug wires, and that car's connectors stay in the injector very well.
I hope that helps in some way shape or form!
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'71 Shantung Yellow AT/FI Squareback |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 7:23 am Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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| KollynnBlackpaw wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
| KollynnBlackpaw wrote: |
| I need to test the #3 injector connector voltage with a multimeter when I am not too busy and see if that one is also getting voltage when the ignition is on and the engine is turned over, as I can see on the good 1-2 bank connector. Would this be a correct method of testing? |
No, the injection pulse is too fast (maybe 65ms) for a VOM to read the voltage.
I haven't used it, but there is a gizmo called a "noid light" that can flash from a voltage spike like this.
The usual issue is not that the injector connector is dirty, but rather from the rolled edges of the embedded female connector working loose. It is a delicate operation, using jeweler's screwdrivers to get the actual connector pins out of the rectangular connector body, then GENTLY tightening the rolled edged with pliers. Too lose and it doesn't fix it. Too tight and you won't get it back on the injector. I've had to do this several times and am looking into Ray's alternative connector as a longer-term fix. |
Well hot damn. Sure enough he's running great now. The new metal connectors I replaced inside the plastic connectors were just too loose to run right. I also re-set and cleaned his points as well as did a valve job one more time to be sure he'd be tip top and he's running great.
Thanks much, I hadn't thought of the connectors themselves just being too far open, since they were brand new. Learn something new every now and then  |
So, you note that the connectors are brand new.....but that the metal female connectors inside fit too loose on the male pins in the injector right?
Question: how new is "NEW"?
The reason I ask is because I am trying to get examples of how fast the original connectors fail for people. Every situation is a little different.
D-jet is maybe the 2nd earliest electronic port injection system. But it is the first to reach true mass production with a degree of success.
I have been bitching about the D-jet female connectors for going on 25 years. I have always had some "connectivity" issues with them in cars that get driven a lot and get worked on a lot.
Back in the 80s a lot of the other fuel injection systems on newer cars had their own reliability issues as they got older so in my early years with D-jet......I figured "some" reliability issues were just the cost of doing business. And I figured a good portion of the issues were simply the fact that I did not know everything possible with the system.....because being pre-internet......there was just not much useful information I could find.
Cut to about 1999....my first forays into the internet and starting massive (and poorly implemented) searches to find the ECU terminals to build a new wiring harness for my D-jet system...........I was searching on Tyco/AMP's huge website......and stumbled across a document from around 1975 or so from AMP and Bosch. Do not quote me on the date of publication. I gathered that the testing they were reporting had been done years earlier and the report was published later.
As D-jet production was winding down, L-jet was already in production along with several versions of CIS, digijet was being developed.........the engineers at AMP/Bosch were doing some lab testing to track down some of the reliability issues that D-jet had.
In a nutshell, they stated that the female connectors could become loose and had either degraded (higher resistance) or intermittent or total loss of connection......with as little as 25 plugging and unplugging cycles.
They went on to say that some failed in even less cycles due to loosening from fatigue caused by heat cycles and vibration.
All of that rang alarm bells because what they were describing.....I had fought with for years on my D-jet systems spanning numerous 411, 412, type 3 and 914's.
These issues were not happening with the newer L-jet style terminal......because......the L-jet style terminals.....called "dual cantilever "....have actual leaf SPRINGS on each side of the contacts to always have a tight contact through a long lifespan no matter how many times they get plug cycled or heat cycled.
The L-jet type of terminal is what ALL injection systems use (except some GM crap through the 80s and 90s used) to this very day.
When I first mentioned this back in the early to mid 2000s on the shop talk forums....there was a lot of pushback because some thought I was bashing the D-jet system.
I was not bashing the D-jet system....just the early connector system.
To be fair.....the original D-jet connectors work fine...when NEW.....but they do not age well.
I have been looking for years to try and find that document again.
D-jet can run so much more reliably with a modern connector. Ray |
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KollynnBlackpaw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 528
Location: Hubbard, Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| KollynnBlackpaw wrote: |
| I need to test the #3 injector connector voltage with a multimeter when I am not too busy and see if that one is also getting voltage when the ignition is on and the engine is turned over, as I can see on the good 1-2 bank connector. Would this be a correct method of testing? |
No, the injection pulse is too fast (maybe 65ms) for a VOM to read the voltage.
I haven't used it, but there is a gizmo called a "noid light" that can flash from a voltage spike like this.
The usual issue is not that the injector connector is dirty, but rather from the rolled edges of the embedded female connector working loose. It is a delicate operation, using jeweler's screwdrivers to get the actual connector pins out of the rectangular connector body, then GENTLY tightening the rolled edged with pliers. Too lose and it doesn't fix it. Too tight and you won't get it back on the injector. I've had to do this several times and am looking into Ray's alternative connector as a longer-term fix. |
Well hot damn. Sure enough he's running great now. The new metal connectors I replaced inside the plastic connectors were just too loose to run right. I also re-set and cleaned his points as well as did a valve job one more time to be sure he'd be tip top and he's running great.
Thanks much, I hadn't thought of the connectors themselves just being too far open, since they were brand new. Learn something new every now and then
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'71 Shantung Yellow AT/FI Squareback |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34013
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:17 am Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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| KollynnBlackpaw wrote: |
| I need to test the #3 injector connector voltage with a multimeter when I am not too busy and see if that one is also getting voltage when the ignition is on and the engine is turned over, as I can see on the good 1-2 bank connector. Would this be a correct method of testing? |
No, the injection pulse is too fast (maybe 65ms) for a VOM to read the voltage.
I haven't used it, but there is a gizmo called a "noid light" that can flash from a voltage spike like this.
The usual issue is not that the injector connector is dirty, but rather from the rolled edges of the embedded female connector working loose. It is a delicate operation, using jeweler's screwdrivers to get the actual connector pins out of the rectangular connector body, then GENTLY tightening the rolled edged with pliers. Too lose and it doesn't fix it. Too tight and you won't get it back on the injector. I've had to do this several times and am looking into Ray's alternative connector as a longer-term fix. |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:53 am Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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We put a new 123 Ignition in my FI/AT square and it runs good.
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https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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KollynnBlackpaw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 528
Location: Hubbard, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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Sure enough after a 4 or so mile round trip the issue has returned.
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KollynnBlackpaw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 528
Location: Hubbard, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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Got it reassembled the other day and forgot to post - he runs alright again but still seems to cut out on a cyl or two once in a while. I've already pulled the plugs and cleaned them, they weren't particularly dirty. Timing is good still. Going to drive him around more to see if the problem comes back in full.
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KollynnBlackpaw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 528
Location: Hubbard, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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Is there a diagram for Type 3 FI dizzies? I have a 311 905 205 L. I have it removed and a spring fell out when I removed the contacts this time. Thanks yall.
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KollynnBlackpaw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 528
Location: Hubbard, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:11 am Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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Right, contact poitns are the issue - they were quite dirty and I've cleaned them and blue was running tip top. However, after about 2-3 miles of test drive, he started to run poorly again, and by the time I got home and started testing, was on 2 or 3 cyl again. I'm pulling the dizzy after some lunch and cleaning it up again and seeing if I can tell what's causing them to go bad. I'll be pulling a spare good dizzy in the mean time.
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KollynnBlackpaw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 528
Location: Hubbard, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:58 am Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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Right, changing out the ECU resulted in the exact same running (at least now I know I have a most likely good spare ECU, I'd be surprised if they're both bad in the same exact way.)
Should my next attack be pulling the dizzy and checking the trigger points and/or swap in a spare dizzy? I could pull the fuel injection dizzy from the same 70 parts car, as again, that's not going back to FI and I'd assume carbs would want a different dizzy anyways.
Also I was reminded by my boyfriend, right before she started running on just three, she would run on three and then, at higher RPMs it seemed like was the key, get great power and push us back in our seats suddenly from the unexpected power. Hasn't been the case for a bit now, and I'm not sure what changed since, as when that problem started, I parked it for the night, came back out next day, and now we're solely on three.
Thanks again.
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2023 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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| KollynnBlackpaw wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
A 70 ECU should swap into a 71 without an issue, as they're both "C" ECU's. If you find that the existing ECU is actually a "D" version, keep in mind it's actually an upgrade of the "C" version. And "E" from a 72 will not be compatible though. It seems that when VW was doing ECUs, they basically did them in 2 year versions.
Back in 68 was the "A" version and 69 "B" version was an upgrade. 70 got the "C" version and was also used in 71. for 72-73 there was the "E" version. just keep this in mind. |
Ahhh so it's sounding like maybe not? Blue is a '72. I would have to check what ECU is in him currently. I will say I have no idea if the ECU in the '70 functions but it's a good start. I do also have a '71 I could, I suppose, steal the ECU out of, but that one is an auto. |
The ECU doesn't care about which transmission it's connected to, and it doesn't control the trans at all. The ECU only controls things engine related like injectors,and uses things like head temp sensor, air temp sensor TVS, and MPS to sense what the engine is doing. It fires the injectors thru the trigger points in the distributor. The ECU is taking in account that there is steady fuel pressure (28-30psi), and a given amount of air entering it. I know Tram and Ray would cringe, but I think of the FI on these cars as an electronic carb, in that they only control fuel.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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KollynnBlackpaw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 528
Location: Hubbard, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
A 70 ECU should swap into a 71 without an issue, as they're both "C" ECU's. If you find that the existing ECU is actually a "D" version, keep in mind it's actually an upgrade of the "C" version. And "E" from a 72 will not be compatible though. It seems that when VW was doing ECUs, they basically did them in 2 year versions.
Back in 68 was the "A" version and 69 "B" version was an upgrade. 70 got the "C" version and was also used in 71. for 72-73 there was the "E" version. just keep this in mind. |
Ahhh so it's sounding like maybe not? Blue is a '72. I would have to check what ECU is in him currently. I will say I have no idea if the ECU in the '70 functions but it's a good start. I do also have a '71 I could, I suppose, steal the ECU out of, but that one is an auto.
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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| KollynnBlackpaw wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| KollynnBlackpaw wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
Since the problem follows the wiring plug, I'd ohm meter out the wires to that plug. You might have to go to the ecu at one end and the plug at the other to verify that the wire isn't broken. I'd look over the plug itself and even ohm meter it out as it might have some crud causing a bad connection inside it. Also double check the ground connection too, as the wiring is set up to have a goog ground and a good connection from the ECU to the injector (the 2 wires at the injector). |
Thanks much! I did check the grounds (the three prong one under the breather, correct? and while there was no breaks, I did cut back and crimp new connectors on solidly to be absolutely sure.
I noticed removing the #3 spark plug wire *also* does not affect how it idles - however I don't think it'd run on one spark plug (two non functional + removing one that does affect it's idle) so I'm getting very lost. I think it may be the D2 on the ECU schematic, being the #3 and, as there's quite the possibly the connector got switch around at some point in it's life, possibly #2 injector connectors seem to be having issues, while #4 and supposedly the #1 injector connector are not having issues running.
I need to test the #3 injector connector voltage with a multimeter when I am not too busy and see if that one is also getting voltage when the ignition is on and the engine is turned over, as I can see on the good 1-2 bank connector. Would this be a correct method of testing? |
I'd try contacting Tram and see if he has a spare ECU that you could plug in and see if the problem stays or goes away. That would tell you what to do next. |
Fair point, actually, I DO have a spare in my old 70 square that is getting converted to carbs (due to sitting for a long, long time, enough that every component on it is original VW parts, down to the spark plug wires. Redoing that FI seems pointless to me.) Would a 70 ECU be compatible enough to see if the problem consists, or is it more likely to simply cause more problems?
Thanks |
A 70 ECU should swap into a 71 without an issue, as they're both "C" ECU's. If you find that the existing ECU is actually a "D" version, keep in mind it's actually an upgrade of the "C" version. And "E" from a 72 will not be compatible though. It seems that when VW was doing ECUs, they basically did them in 2 year versions.
Back in 68 was the "A" version and 69 "B" version was an upgrade. 70 got the "C" version and was also used in 71. for 72-73 there was the "E" version. just keep this in mind.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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KollynnBlackpaw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 528
Location: Hubbard, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| KollynnBlackpaw wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
Since the problem follows the wiring plug, I'd ohm meter out the wires to that plug. You might have to go to the ecu at one end and the plug at the other to verify that the wire isn't broken. I'd look over the plug itself and even ohm meter it out as it might have some crud causing a bad connection inside it. Also double check the ground connection too, as the wiring is set up to have a goog ground and a good connection from the ECU to the injector (the 2 wires at the injector). |
Thanks much! I did check the grounds (the three prong one under the breather, correct? and while there was no breaks, I did cut back and crimp new connectors on solidly to be absolutely sure.
I noticed removing the #3 spark plug wire *also* does not affect how it idles - however I don't think it'd run on one spark plug (two non functional + removing one that does affect it's idle) so I'm getting very lost. I think it may be the D2 on the ECU schematic, being the #3 and, as there's quite the possibly the connector got switch around at some point in it's life, possibly #2 injector connectors seem to be having issues, while #4 and supposedly the #1 injector connector are not having issues running.
I need to test the #3 injector connector voltage with a multimeter when I am not too busy and see if that one is also getting voltage when the ignition is on and the engine is turned over, as I can see on the good 1-2 bank connector. Would this be a correct method of testing? |
I'd try contacting Tram and see if he has a spare ECU that you could plug in and see if the problem stays or goes away. That would tell you what to do next. |
Fair point, actually, I DO have a spare in my old 70 square that is getting converted to carbs (due to sitting for a long, long time, enough that every component on it is original VW parts, down to the spark plug wires. Redoing that FI seems pointless to me.) Would a 70 ECU be compatible enough to see if the problem consists, or is it more likely to simply cause more problems?
Thanks
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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| KollynnBlackpaw wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
Since the problem follows the wiring plug, I'd ohm meter out the wires to that plug. You might have to go to the ecu at one end and the plug at the other to verify that the wire isn't broken. I'd look over the plug itself and even ohm meter it out as it might have some crud causing a bad connection inside it. Also double check the ground connection too, as the wiring is set up to have a goog ground and a good connection from the ECU to the injector (the 2 wires at the injector). |
Thanks much! I did check the grounds (the three prong one under the breather, correct? and while there was no breaks, I did cut back and crimp new connectors on solidly to be absolutely sure.
I noticed removing the #3 spark plug wire *also* does not affect how it idles - however I don't think it'd run on one spark plug (two non functional + removing one that does affect it's idle) so I'm getting very lost. I think it may be the D2 on the ECU schematic, being the #3 and, as there's quite the possibly the connector got switch around at some point in it's life, possibly #2 injector connectors seem to be having issues, while #4 and supposedly the #1 injector connector are not having issues running.
I need to test the #3 injector connector voltage with a multimeter when I am not too busy and see if that one is also getting voltage when the ignition is on and the engine is turned over, as I can see on the good 1-2 bank connector. Would this be a correct method of testing? |
I'd try contacting Tram and see if he has a spare ECU that you could plug in and see if the problem stays or goes away. That would tell you what to do next.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
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| Back to top |
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KollynnBlackpaw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 528
Location: Hubbard, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
Since the problem follows the wiring plug, I'd ohm meter out the wires to that plug. You might have to go to the ecu at one end and the plug at the other to verify that the wire isn't broken. I'd look over the plug itself and even ohm meter it out as it might have some crud causing a bad connection inside it. Also double check the ground connection too, as the wiring is set up to have a goog ground and a good connection from the ECU to the injector (the 2 wires at the injector). |
Thanks much! I did check the grounds (the three prong one under the breather, correct? and while there was no breaks, I did cut back and crimp new connectors on solidly to be absolutely sure.
I noticed removing the #3 spark plug wire *also* does not affect how it idles - however I don't think it'd run on one spark plug (two non functional + removing one that does affect it's idle) so I'm getting very lost. I think it may be the D2 on the ECU schematic, being the #3 and, as there's quite the possibly the connector got switch around at some point in it's life, possibly #2 injector connectors seem to be having issues, while #4 and supposedly the #1 injector connector are not having issues running.
I need to test the #3 injector connector voltage with a multimeter when I am not too busy and see if that one is also getting voltage when the ignition is on and the engine is turned over, as I can see on the good 1-2 bank connector. Would this be a correct method of testing?
_________________
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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| KollynnBlackpaw wrote: |
Howdy all! Long time no see (for good reason, mostly!)
I'm here with a strange one today, and I was hoping for some input while I dig out my manuals today.
I have one injector plug on the 1-2 bank not firing. I can move the plug from cyl 1 to cyl 2 and the issue follows, ruling out the injector or cylinder itself.
I have already fixed two near-breaks on two wires, one each on cyl 1 and cyl 2 injector wire. I used new spade connectors and placed them into the plastic shrouds. This fixed some rough running on one of the injector wires, however one still is non functional. Pulling the spark plug to whichever cylinder it's plugged into results in no change of running quality. I have also replaced the spade connectors on the tri-point grounding point under the breather with new spade connectors, which has not helped either.
Blue has been sitting around for a little as I've been focused on work, other vehicles, digital commissions, and restarting my horn button manufacturing.
Where should I check next? I haven't removed the distributor to check the trigger points yet - however I have done the test of putting the key to "on" and turning the dizzy. I can hear injectors on each bank clicking, however with only the bad plug plugged in on the 1-2 bank, it does not click.
I also have not removed the brain and checked it out yet, as I am hoping I don't have to.
Thanks y'all, hope to hear from you  |
Since the problem follows the wiring plug, I'd ohm meter out the wires to that plug. You might have to go to the ecu at one end and the plug at the other to verify that the wire isn't broken. I'd look over the plug itself and even ohm meter it out as it might have some crud causing a bad connection inside it. Also double check the ground connection too, as the wiring is set up to have a goog ground and a good connection from the ECU to the injector (the 2 wires at the injector).
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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KollynnBlackpaw
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 528
Location: Hubbard, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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| notchboy wrote: |
| andybla wrote: |
| maybe some broken solder cracks from age, hard to see for the naked eye, same problem with my daily car (behind instrument panel in this case), had strange behavior, resoldered them and car ran smooth again |
This was what I was thinking and kinda why I pointed out the harness. Bus guys have had to completely redo their harness to get things to run right. I dont want to see carbs either. I have a well running factory FI on my bus now and its great. |
So possibly some broken solders on the ECU, or as stated above, behind the instrument panel? I appreciate the input. I have two good running (well, till now) EFI squares and I wouldn't give up the EFI until I absolutely have to, like when Gas isn't available anymore lol....
Decent day out today, once I pick up my mom from work I'll be working on Blue and trying to solve this issue. Working swing sure does do something to your sleep schedule haha.
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'71 Shantung Yellow AT/FI Squareback |
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notchboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 22462
Location: Escondido CA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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| andybla wrote: |
| maybe some broken solder cracks from age, hard to see for the naked eye, same problem with my daily car (behind instrument panel in this case), had strange behavior, resoldered them and car ran smooth again |
This was what I was thinking and kinda why I pointed out the harness. Bus guys have had to completely redo their harness to get things to run right. I dont want to see carbs either. I have a well running factory FI on my bus now and its great.
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| t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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andybla
Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2014
Posts: 630
Location: BE
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2023 2:41 am Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. |
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| maybe some broken solder cracks from age, hard to see for the naked eye, same problem with my daily car (behind instrument panel in this case), had strange behavior, resoldered them and car ran smooth again |
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