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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31271 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Non cranking 69 |
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KSKI wrote: |
Waiting on my buddies jack |
A VW owner NEEDS to have a jack and jack stands.
However you could drive and park the right wheels up on a curb and scoot underneath. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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KSKI Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2015 Posts: 332 Location: WV
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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Non cranking 69 |
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Hi all - the key was turned and took readings on both new starter wire from newly installed ignition switch and starter wire coming in from under hood. The result was that the wire from the ignition switch registered but the striped ignition wire from the front did not. _________________ My VOLKSWAGEN DOES IT --- AGAIN |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15975 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Non cranking 69 |
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KSKI wrote: |
Hi all - the key was turned and took readings on both new starter wire from newly installed ignition switch and starter wire coming in from under hood. The result was that the wire from the ignition switch registered but the striped ignition wire from the front did not. |
Ok, so you have 12v at the red/black wire coming from the ignition switch. Good.
This red/black wire runs from the ignition switch into the main wiring harness that runs along the left side heater channel. It goes into the side panel on the left of the rear seat. It emerges from the hole on the left side of the rear seat and passes under the left rear seat. There is a junction here under the seat before the wire exits next to the center tunnel. If you disconnect the wires at this junction, the wire coming from the left side of the car is providing the 12v from the ignition switch. Was it this wire you tested?
The other wire which runs to the starter solenoid is only powered when the ignition switch provides power via the wire from the left side. There is no voltage coming from the starter. If you connect this starter solenoid wire to the battery positive terminal it should cause the engine to crank (be sure the car is in neutral !!!) If this does get the engine to crank then your starter is fine. You need to trace down WHY the wire coming from the ignition switch is not bringing 12v when the key is turned to START. This is one junction up behind the dash between the ignition switch and the main harness. Check if there is a good connection here. _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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KSKI Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2015 Posts: 332 Location: WV
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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Non cranking 69 |
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Getting use of tire ramps so I will try the solenoid _________________ My VOLKSWAGEN DOES IT --- AGAIN |
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KSKI Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2015 Posts: 332 Location: WV
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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Non cranking 69 |
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Took readings with meter neg probe on car, pos probe on wire: should all wires on voltage reg be reading 12 v with key on? My green -blue-and red d+ read extremely low _________________ My VOLKSWAGEN DOES IT --- AGAIN |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15975 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Non cranking 69 |
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KSKI wrote: |
Hi- looked around the internet but couldn't find site that offers info on where to jack up a bug using a trolley jack- |
When using a four point lift, I have also used the outer ends of the front "Napoleon hat". The front of the Beetle is very light and the ends of the "hat" are reinforced so I think it is okay, but the front beam is preferred as it already supports the weight of the front.
What ever you do, do NOT lift from the pan. The pan is thin metal and will definitely bend under the weight of the car. The center tunnel is VERY strong and you can use the tunnel as a lift point (only the tunnel, not any of the parts hanging off the tunnel).
Also, you can lift an entire side of the car by jacking from the jack point located outboard just ahead of the rear wheels. This point is located very close to the center of mass so creates 3-points of contact = very stable.
KSKI wrote: |
Also taking readings with meter neg probe on car, pos probe on wire: should all wires on voltage reg be reading 12 v with key on? My green -blue-and red d+ read extremely low |
Not sure where you got this idea? No the different terminals on the regulator have different functions. The B+ terminal is connected to the "main" which connects the battery, charging system and constant 12v+ power to the front. This is basically the same as testing the battery positive terminal. Test this for 12v (12.6v at rest). When the engine is running the voltage here can reach 14.0v+. I have not actually seen specified measurements for the other terminals. If you disconnect the #61 blue wire while the ignition is ON you should get a 12v reading as this wire is powered by the ignition switch. _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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KSKI Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2015 Posts: 332 Location: WV
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Non cranking 69 |
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Hi- finally got under and looked at solenoid starter unfortunately they were covered in a coat of something black (anti-rust?) --banged it a half dozen times but didn't do any good. Also found some rust but that's another issue. By the way somebody told me that if some wires are not connected then the car will never start. _________________ My VOLKSWAGEN DOES IT --- AGAIN |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15975 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Non cranking 69 |
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KSKI wrote: |
By the way somebody told me that if some wires are not connected then the car will never start. |
That seems like a very BROAD statement.
If the battery is disconnected, nothing will work.
On the other hand, as long as you have enough voltage to the ignition coil, you could remove the starter completely and still be able to "push start" the car. But if you disconnect the ignition coil you can't get the engine running even if your starter is working perfectly.
Remove the coil to distributor HT wire and no spark makes it to the spark plugs.
See, lots of single wires if disconnected will result in the car not starting/running.
So have you given up on your starter?
It is not unusual to have your starter coated in undercoating. It actually prevents rusting. Even the toughest undercoating can be removed. You may just need to cut thru it? You only need to expose the battery cable stud and the terminal that the end of the#50 wire connects to.
Take a pic and let us see what you are working with. _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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KSKI Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2015 Posts: 332 Location: WV
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Non cranking 69 |
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Got these this cold morning
_________________ My VOLKSWAGEN DOES IT --- AGAIN |
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KSKI Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2015 Posts: 332 Location: WV
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Non cranking 69 |
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Here's another pic
Seems like all the wires are in place--I think I mentioned this before that when I touch the red wire off of the positive terminal to the wire to the solenoid it sparks like crazy _________________ My VOLKSWAGEN DOES IT --- AGAIN |
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celblazer Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2014 Posts: 62 Location: South Jersey
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Non cranking 69 |
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If it sparks but doesn't crank it looks like you need a starter. I would pull it and bench test it.
Your battery is fully charged right? _________________ My Stable: 65 Mustang Fastback, 88 Lebaron GTC Convertible, 01 Sebring Convertible, 09 HHR SS (325whp,400wtq), 92 Harley Heritage Softail And my 1st Bug a 73. |
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KSKI Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2015 Posts: 332 Location: WV
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Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Non cranking 69 |
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Ordered starter from Autozone - will just replace both solenoid and starter when it comes in and it stops raining. _________________ My VOLKSWAGEN DOES IT --- AGAIN |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9665 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Non cranking 69 |
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If you ordered an auto stick started you can bench test it. Auto stick starters are self supporting.
If it's a direct replacement starter. Don't attempt to bench test it. You can damage the starter winding's, as they are unsupported when out of the trans bell housing.
This has been discussed many times in the forums.
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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KSKI Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2015 Posts: 332 Location: WV
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Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Non cranking 69 |
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Put in starter- finally and the bug is cranking again!!
Thanks to all your help and suggestions - now I have to get the wiring straightened out! _________________ My VOLKSWAGEN DOES IT --- AGAIN |
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