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Brake Cylinder Shelf Life
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79SuperVert
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:41 pm    Post subject: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

I have a stock of spare parts in case something fails, so that I can replace the part quickly and not wait for a new one. But sometimes, I'm lucky, and the parts take a long time to fail.

In this case, it is the master cylinder. It has finally started to leak, and I have a spare German MC that I bought new around 12 years ago. It has been in its box, stored in another box of parts, in an unheated garage, all this time.

VW advised not to store assembled brake cylinder parts for more than one to two years. Do I need to rebuild this MC before putting it on the car?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

It's probably dry, I'd take it apart look at the rubber parts soak them in brake fluid and reassemble wet. Then it's good to go.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

maybe, maybe not. Cant hurt to open it up and inspect, maybe wipe clean and add new brake brease to tbe bore, piston and seals, Id be inclined to leave seals on piston if all else looks good, rather than stretch the seals in removal.

Id at least look for rust on the cylinder exterior, washer and spring clip, if corroded, id be wanting to pull it apart for inspection. If exterior is rust free, thats a good sign, and Id be thinking it is highly probably ok to run it as is. The Big problem would be corrosion, the prestorage condition, packaging and enviroment are the big variables. If any of the variables is conducive to corrosion, that corrosion would likely be seen on the exterior in addition to the interior, thats why corrosion free exterior is a good sign.


good luck
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
maybe, maybe not. Cant hurt to open it up and inspect, maybe wipe clean and add new brake brease to tbe bore, piston and seals, Id be inclined to leave seals on piston if all else looks good, rather than stretch the seals in removal.

Id at least look for rust on the cylinder exterior, washer and spring clip, if corroded, id be wanting to pull it apart for inspection. If exterior is rust free, thats a good sign, and Id be thinking it is highly probably ok to run it as is. The Big problem would be corrosion, the prestorage condition, packaging and enviroment are the big variables. If any of the variables is conducive to corrosion, that corrosion would likely be seen on the exterior in addition to the interior, thats why corrosion free exterior is a good sign.


good luck


I agree you know VW wanted you to assemble with assembly paste and if it sits for awhile it may just be stuck. Brake fluid or an attempt to bench bleed might help. Did I say that?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. Disassembling the MC seems simple, so I may go ahead and disassemble and lubricate the spare MC anyway. Is "brake assembly paste" what is now called "brake lube"? The VW service manual specifies paste, but only for re-inserting the MC's piston. The Haynes manual implies you can use either the paste or brake fluid. But "paste" and "fluid" don't sound like.the same thing.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:32 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

I kept a good ATE 19mm single circuit for over 10 years into my box, into its original package; a sort of oiled paper was around the MC.

Last year tried to mount it, perfect! No free play, solid pedal.

I'm going to consider that mounting grease is only to facilitate "remounting" of the pump, if dismantled.

But that grease is unuseful when MC (kept mounted) is installed and normal brake oil is filled.

So, basing on my personal experience, I will try to install new MC without dismantling; you have a good chance that it works at 100%.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

the paste or grease is different than fluid. the paste has good lubrication ability and is not water absorptive. this is important to add to the master and wheel cylinders. it is very helpful in preventing stuck pistons and stopping rust in the bores, yes the paste is also put in non wetted areas of the cylinder. if you picture the wheel cylinders for instance, you see the rubber seal is inside of the pistons, the pistons are exposed to whatever enviroment makes it past the big end boots, if you drive thru water that area can be flooded, so you want the paste in there lubing the piston, keeping water out of the space between piston and bore. same thing on the master, near the peddle pushrod.
use of fluid to lube these non wetted areas results in the fluid aborbing water from air, making a corrosive mix of fluid/water on the bore.

so use paste or grease (old vw books called it genuine VW brake grease, but any brake system grease should be fine.
But only brake rated grease must be used, regular greases may harm the rubber. do not confise this grease with caliper slider pin grease. you want the grease that is brake rubber safe, made to go inside the brake hydroulics.

good luck
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Last edited by bluebus86 on Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

NAPA sells a Sil-Glyde silicon grease in a tube that is brake system approved by the manufacture.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sil-glyde+silicone+lubri...a=products

Even new right off the FLAPS shelf would take apart any brake cylinder for inspection and brake paste.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

^ Thats for contact points.. not for the wet Hydraulic system..



I disassemble every Master and Wheel Cylinder clean, ( light hone when/often required) and lubricate with the fluid I plan to use regardless of shelf life.. right before use..

Yes paste is different than brake fluid.
Brake cylinder assembly paste is different than the fluid.. but both are hygroscopic .. So neither is best for LONG damp shelf life..


You can NOT use a petroleum base to protect hydraulic cylinder brake parts..

Silicon grease will protect cylinder parts yes.. but .. you need to plan to use true silicon brake fluid when it goes into use. ..

Disassemble, inspect, clean and lube with the fluid you plan to use right before use.. ( if its usable) .. Then install and put it to work.. .. if not.. then it's a core..
No real reason to do it too long or way before.. unless you re-lube it every few years..



.


.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

I'd install it in mine. I'd do a bench bleed first, and if that looked OK, I'd go for it. Of course, that's not really a pressurized situation.

I find taking apart and re-inserting MC pistons a pain in the butt. The forward piston is typically held in place with a small hex head set screw.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

Well, I went ahead and ordered a new MC anyway, so I'll be gaining some experience by taking apart the 12 year old one.

Regarding "brake assembly paste", is something like this OK?

http://www.rmeuropean.com/Products/05361-MFG633.aspx?gclid=CKjzudXd3tICFQaHswodX2QCXg

or this?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ptx-24110?seid=...swod3g0HuQ
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

79SuperVert wrote:
Well, I went ahead and ordered a new MC anyway, so I'll be gaining some experience by taking apart the 12 year old one.

Regarding "brake assembly paste", is something like this OK?

http://www.rmeuropean.com/Products/05361-MFG633.aspx?gclid=CKjzudXd3tICFQaHswodX2QCXg

or this?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ptx-24110?seid=...swod3g0HuQ


I would say either one will work for assembling brake shoes and hardware but not to go inside the master or cylinders.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:
^ Thats for contact points.. not for the wet Hydraulic system..


Like said before, manufacture approved this for inside and outside wet brake systems. Emailed twice just to make sure. Have been using it for years on ours with no problem. We do use silicon brake fluid, but that was not specified by the manufacture.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:
^ Thats for contact points.. not for the wet Hydraulic system..


Like said before, manufacture approved this for inside and outside wet brake systems. Emailed twice just to make sure. Have been using it for years on ours with no problem. We do use silicon brake fluid, but that was not specified by the manufacture.



K ..whatever makes you happy......but.. just to note.. you really didn't say or state anything before.
Also.. Sli-Glide Brake Lubricant pretty much states right on the label what its really for..

Silicone base grease, fluid ... anything. .. and standard Glycol based brake fluid don't mix.. period..


If it's used with Silicon Brake fluid.. then.. it's good.. but not so much for those who still use Glycol fluid..

I wont...dont recommend non compatible products.

To each their own..




79SuperVert wrote:
Well, I went ahead and ordered a new MC anyway, so I'll be gaining some experience by taking apart the 12 year old one.

Regarding "brake assembly paste", is something like this OK?

http://www.rmeuropean.com/Products/05361-MFG633.aspx?gclid=CKjzudXd3tICFQaHswodX2QCXg

or this?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ptx-24110?seid=...swod3g0HuQ



IMO....
Yes.. and NO.. All depends on the end fluid to be used..

Glycol based paste..

http://www.ate-info.de/en/details/produkte/ate-bremszylinder-paste-180-ml



If you plan to use Silicon fluid then the Sli-Glide or other Silicon based paste/grease is ok.



.

.
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Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
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WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
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79SuperVert
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

Any tips on where to find? Bremszylinder paste doesn't seem to be available in the US. I can get it from overseas but the shipping costs are astronomical.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

79SuperVert wrote:
Any tips on where to find? Bremszylinder paste doesn't seem to be available in the US. I can get it from overseas but the shipping costs are astronomical.


Nope... I use the brake fluid I plan to use.. that's the most common practice in the industry.

I have used this in the past..
https://www.brakepartsinc.com/raybestos/en-us/catalog-part-search.html

I was merely trying to note there is a difference between Glycol and Silicon based products..



.
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Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
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WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

Thanks.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-24125-Ceramic-Extreme-Lubricant/dp/B0018,PSASU


http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATE-Bremszylinder-Paste-Lu...2200336132

http://www.ebay.com/itm/18g-Castrol-Red-Rubber-Gre...0679593752



by using the correct brake grease, you can eliminate the corrosion problems that use of dot 3 or 4 fluid causes when used outside of the sealed pressurized system.

good luck
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

I opened up the 12 year old cylinder tonight. As soon as I removed the clip, the piston slid out smoothly. Seals appeared still wet, the piston and cylinder looked clean. I closed it up and will be installing it on the Beetle tomorrow.

Thanks to everyone for their input and advice.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:25 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Cylinder Shelf Life Reply with quote

79SuperVert wrote:
I opened up the 12 year old cylinder tonight. As soon as I removed the clip, the piston slid out smoothly. Seals appeared still wet, the piston and cylinder looked clean. I closed it up and will be installing it on the Beetle tomorrow.

Thanks to everyone for their input and advice.


In the words of Mark Tucker: "lettuce no" !!!
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