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58ragman Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2014 Posts: 404 Location: OC to ontario
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Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:59 pm Post subject: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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This question surrounds crank triggers.Thanks in advance to all that can shed some light.
My question or questions are which is better crank trigger or 40 year old brand new distributor.
I believe the question is obvious.But being so obvious then why is it not so widely used.
I recently checked out the spec for vw drag racing and you guys can also check it out.The rules ALLOW crank triggers.
With that being said and everybody knows they are better.Why are they not being used so widely.
I have seen say 10 wicked turbo cars both street and full race and they all run the basic MSD 8485 distributor.
We all seen it grey top and red MSD wires.
But if we all know crank trigger is clearly better why is it not used.
Is there something to the equation that im missing.
reason I say is that i too am building a turbo and wanted to go megasquirt.But it sounds scary like there is a bunch of stuff needed to set timing on a basic say MICROSQUIRT.
If all the fuel injection people say it is easier to set up better than any distributor they are used widely on all current cars both foreign and domestic.
and we all know the million dollar question which is clearly better crank trigger or 40 year old brand new distributor.
so we all know the answers.
The why is a crank trigger set up that runs 300 dollars not being put in effect by vw drag racers across the usa and world wide.
MSD 8485 will set you back 300 plus wires plus coil plus shipping plus tax plus profit.
why is the choice the opposite.is it just monkey see monkey do |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26788 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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Because it's easier. |
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gprudenciop Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008 Posts: 606 Location: portland or
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:18 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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Also some people like the stock or stockish look. Simplicity of 3 wire hook up is still the king. _________________ Never look down at anybody unless you are helping them up..
Loaning someone your strength instead of reminding them of their weakness = kindness.. |
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vwkirb Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 812 Location: Athens, GA
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:39 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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Crank trigger is fun. But it's certainly not easier and a lot of people hate wiring. People are even scared of it.
Everytime I need to change my timing I need a laptop... But I don't really ever have to do that so...
I'm with ya!
It however does not look period correct, but I kind of like have a Ford coil in my engine bay. Henry Ford II is probably rolling in his grave, the sacrilege. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12730 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:48 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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If you want to talk simple - why doesn't anyone run magnetos? They were all the rage in drag racing VWs in the '60s and '70s. Now none, nothing, nada. |
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Casting Timmy Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2012 Posts: 1221 Location: Kansas City, Kansas
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:53 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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I'll go crank trigger on mine with CB's set up as I also get a rev limiter as well.
All sites have their quirks, I think nothing but Dizzy's are a thing of this site. Tons of people are running electronic, the type 3 forum on here will be more positive about it than the performance section. |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15308 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:55 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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If you are running carbs a crank fire is so grossly overkill. The accuracy of the two systems do not match. A carb is nothing more than a controlled fuel leak. Putting a crank fire ignition on an engine with carbs is like putting a lazar gun sight on a rubber band slingshot.
When drag racing and above 3000 you are at full advance all the time and the distributor does nothing more than a switch. There is no difference in my ET when I switched from a 009, 034, or 050. With an MSD system you also have RPM controls and rev limiters. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76938 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:01 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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When i want, crank trigger and EFI I drive my Subaru.
I like carbs and points. I drive a car designed in the 1930s and it has a "charm" that modern cars don't. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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nbuscemi Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2009 Posts: 733 Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:15 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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For what its worth:
Im using all stock ford ignition on my turbo build. Everything I've used so far comes off of a 1991-95 ford escort 1.9L
-Nick- _________________ -Why buy it when you can BUILD it?- |
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Krochus Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2017 Posts: 892 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:56 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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One damn good reason not to is because the aftermarket is stuck in 1994 land everything operates based on a serial port, computers made in the past ten years do not have a serial port and USB to serial adapters are rife with fail. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76938 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:05 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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Krochus wrote: |
the aftermarket is stuck in 1994 |
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:05 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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I use Windows 10 and Bluetooth for my computer hookup to MS-2. _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
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Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
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http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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GTV Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004 Posts: 2084 Location: Si'ahl
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:19 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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Glenn wrote: |
When i want, crank trigger and EFI I drive my Subaru.
I like carbs and points. I drive a car designed in the 1930s and it has a "charm" that modern cars don't. |
^^^^ This. ^^^^
If we all wanted what was the most contemporary engineered vehicle this forum would not exist at all. _________________ EMPI Power Rules! |
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FreeBug Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012 Posts: 4278 Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:56 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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Glenn wrote: |
When i want, crank trigger and EFI I drive my Subaru.
I like carbs and points. I drive a car designed in the 1930s and it has a "charm" that modern cars don't. |
Yep. I'm finishing a setup for my 1303, fuel injection and Hall-effect distributor. It' s made for driving. But every now and then, I look at a 25 hp. engine, and it has an esthetic appeal my modern stuff can't match, like a nice watch or sewing machine. And the distributor is secondary only to the carb as "icing" on the cake: this little piece of fine precision machinery, all beautiful in it's minute intricacies... Add age, and patina, and provenance, it's hard to replicate.
I don't have anything old, but I wish I had an oval I would keep it totally stock...
Deep down, I wish I could justify using one of those gorgeous 010s.. |
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vwkirb Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 812 Location: Athens, GA
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:57 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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It's funny that people complain about the quality of distributors but also complain about crankfire (the systems are usually from the 90s tech...) not being period correct or being too accurate...
I mean come on now... Maybe the best system is the one that works. I like having megajolt but I also didn't mind having a svda.
If ignition systems should be judged based in their to function with various engine conditions... Obviously there would be a winner. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20379 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:07 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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Krochus wrote: |
One damn good reason not to is because the aftermarket is stuck in 1994 land everything operates based on a serial port, computers made in the past ten years do not have a serial port and USB to serial adapters are rife with fail. |
But really.... You only need serial port to tune.... For everyday running you do not need to have laptop connected up you are supposed to be looking at road not computer screen... And in drag race its not like "Fast and Furious" you don't have time to adjust "tune" while hurtling down track..... And serial port is reliable, it's the WINDOWS computers it has to connect to is the problem...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Last edited by Dale M. on Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DeathBySnuSnu Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012 Posts: 1183 Location: MS
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:07 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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I also choose the ford crank trigger ignition.
But then again my app aint normal either.
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20379 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:18 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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vwkirb wrote: |
It's funny that people complain about the quality of distributors but also complain about crankfire (the systems are usually from the 90s tech...) not being period correct or being too accurate...
I mean come on now... Maybe the best system is the one that works. I like having megajolt but I also didn't mind having a svda.
If ignition systems should be judged based in their to function with various engine conditions... Obviously there would be a winner. |
Yeah... Funniest thing today (for naysayers) is almost every engine manufactured today in auto and truck industry uses crank fire, wonder why its so bad.... Oh and where are the carburetors....
For those who want to live in past, its OK we understand your fear of new and better things.... You can go back to smoke signals for communications, you don't need computers, tablets or cell phones...
And just wait till "new" SMOG rule come out, its going to take thousands of old VW off the streets unless you clean them up by going EFI and CT ignition... Don't argue point, just wait, its a matter of time...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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ps2375 Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2014 Posts: 2471 Location: Meridian,ID
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:44 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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Dale M. wrote: |
And just wait till "new" SMOG rule come out, its going to take thousands of old VW off the streets unless you clean them up by going EFI and CT ignition... Don't argue point, just wait, its a matter of time...
Dale |
Why would you need to clean up the emissions on a 40+ yr old vehicle with technology that wasn't available when car was produced? That's stupid. |
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mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4856 Location: sanger ca
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:02 am Post subject: Re: crank triggers why arent they being run when they are superior |
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ps2375 wrote: |
Dale M. wrote: |
And just wait till "new" SMOG rule come out, its going to take thousands of old VW off the streets unless you clean them up by going EFI and CT ignition... Don't argue point, just wait, its a matter of time...
Dale |
Why would you need to clean up the emissions on a 40+ yr old vehicle with technology that wasn't available when car was produced? That's stupid. |
Because we live in the socialist state of Comifornia, and yes, it is stupid but probably will happen _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
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02 Mexican beetle
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