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1967 voltage regulator burning hot
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Christoffer
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

Hi,

I bought for my 6V 1967 Beetle a new factory rebuilt generator and at the same time a new regulator (made in USA).

I have polarised the generator, check all connections and all seems fine. The car runs but after one minute the regulator (back side) heats up so much that you can't touch it without burning your finger.


Any ideas what is wrong?

According the dealer the new regulator has to be tuned in to suit the new generator, is this correct or i he pulling my leg?

At idle i measured the voltage on the battery to 7.3V


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

Say what? Never heard of "tuning" a regulator. If I'm wrong I'll get corrected shortly. That sound's bizarre.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

Christoffer wrote:
I bought for my 6V 1967 Beetle a new factory rebuilt generator and at the same time a new regulator (made in USA). I have polarised the generator, check all connections and all seems fine. The car runs but after one minute the regulator (back side) heats up so much that you can't touch it without burning your finger.


OK, 1967 with 6-volt system; so you must be out of USA or a non-USA model. Your running voltage of 7.3 sounds OK, maybe just at the high end of the charging range. I assume the 6 volt VR is mounted on top of your generator.

My own 1970 (12 volt) had its original factory voltage regulator with its generator, and it got hot relatively quickly as well (and charging light came on after about 10 minutes of driving), can't say if that was within one minute of driving though; that VR sounds too hot to "be OK". I bought a Bosch solid state replacement for mine, fixed it.
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Christoffer
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
Christoffer wrote:
I bought for my 6V 1967 Beetle a new factory rebuilt generator and at the same time a new regulator (made in USA). I have polarised the generator, check all connections and all seems fine. The car runs but after one minute the regulator (back side) heats up so much that you can't touch it without burning your finger.


OK, 1967 with 6-volt system; so you must be out of USA or a non-USA model. Your running voltage of 7.3 sounds OK, maybe just at the high end of the charging range. I assume the 6 volt VR is mounted on top of your generator.

My own 1970 (12 volt) had its original factory voltage regulator with its generator, and it got hot relatively quickly as well (and charging light came on after about 10 minutes of driving), can't say if that was within one minute of driving though; that VR sounds too hot to "be OK". I bought a Bosch solid state replacement for mine, fixed it.


Yes, the car is european but the regulator is located under the rear seat.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

Christoffer wrote:
Cusser wrote:
Christoffer wrote:
I bought for my 6V 1967 Beetle a new factory rebuilt generator and at the same time a new regulator (made in USA). I have polarised the generator, check all connections and all seems fine. The car runs but after one minute the regulator (back side) heats up so much that you can't touch it without burning your finger.


OK, 1967 with 6-volt system; so you must be out of USA or a non-USA model. Your running voltage of 7.3 sounds OK, maybe just at the high end of the charging range. I assume the 6 volt VR is mounted on top of your generator.

My own 1970 (12 volt) had its original factory voltage regulator with its generator, and it got hot relatively quickly as well (and charging light came on after about 10 minutes of driving), can't say if that was within one minute of driving though; that VR sounds too hot to "be OK". I bought a Bosch solid state replacement for mine, fixed it.


Yes, the car is european but the regulator is located under the rear seat.



The official service manual has some basic test procedures you could perform on charging system, ALSO....... Make sure everthing is wired correct, good clean tight conections. Also you could unscrew the regulator lid or cover, (First disconnected from battery!) and look for what might be showing signs of heat damage, burnt points, arcing, etc..... does any particular input/output wire on the regulator also get hot not near the hot regulator, but also further away (ie is wire also self heating hot, and if so, which wire(s).)

Screw on lid is in center of the lid, and maybe hidden under a dot of thick paint or sealer. Although not so needed in the under seat mounting location, This paint dot is needed on the generator mounted regulators in Bugs , With the screw then on top of the regulator, that screw if not sealed may leak water in rain, washing of car. I once had a nice newish looking regulator in my box of regulators, this, the cleanist looking one did not work, removed cover and found it all rusty. even just a few drops of water, and you may have weeks and more or 100% humidity, basically a sauna enviroment.

So reseal that screw if mounted where it might possibly get wet.

good luck
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Christoffer
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

So did some test today and found when engine running 6.9-7 volts on the battery, 17 volts output from the generator. When the engine was running it is the DF connection on the regulator that heats up. Any ideas what could cause this?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

Need more information, where are you measuring the 17v?

Double check to make sure you have your regulator hooked up properly.

DF on the regulator should be connected to DF on the generator. This is current to the field coils in the generator. The regulator modulates the current to the field coils in order to limit the output of the generator.

It sounds like your regulator is "full-fielding" your generator which is very bad. That will burn out the generator in short order if that's the case.

When the engine is running the voltage reading at D+ on the regulator (which is connected to D+ on the generator) should be very close to the reading at B+ on the regulator (which connects to battery positive terminal, hence B+).

If you are telling me you're getting 17v on D+ while you're getting 7v on B+ then the problem would seem to lie within the regulator itself. It's limiting the system voltage on the output side but it's not modulating DF properly to limit the generator output.

Also make sure the regulator has a good ground, if it's not grounded properly that may be the problem. Is it an electronic solid state regulator or the original electro-mechanical type?
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Christoffer
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

I measured 17v directly from the generator by using a jump wire from DF to ground and hooked up a multimeter from ground to D+ on the generator.

I haven't measured D+ or B+on the regulator, will try the tomorrow. Thanks for the tip.

I have a 6v car so isnīt 7v on B+ normal?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

Christoffer wrote:
I measured 17v directly from the generator by using a jump wire from DF to ground and hooked up a multimeter from ground to D+ on the generator.


Ah OK. That's an important detail!

So yeah that's normal, you basically full-fielded it - that gives you unregulated generator output which you can use to test if the generator is functioning but don't do it for more than a few seconds as you can kill the generator that way.

In that case you can disregard most of my post; it wasn't clear to me that your 17v figure came from a full field test

Quote:

I haven't measured D+ or B+on the regulator, will try the tomorrow. Thanks for the tip.


B+ should be the same as whatever you measure directly at the battery since it's a wire that connects directly from there to the battery.

Quote:

I have a 6v car so isnīt 7v on B+ normal?


Yes, when the generator is off idle and at operating speed you should see about 7.2-7.5v at the battery. You will likely get less at idle, the generator doesn't really do much at idle.

What kind of regulator are you using? I think we still haven't gotten that answer.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

Bet it was made in china. Problem solved.
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Christoffer
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

The regulator is new, the only detail i can give you is that it is made in USA.

Looks like this: https://goo.gl/images/rnxbbl
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

Christoffer wrote:
The regulator is new, the only detail i can give you is that it is made in USA.

Looks like this: https://goo.gl/images/rnxbbl


If you bent the mounting legs to mount flat make sure you have plenty of clearance from the connections.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

Hmmm that no-name regulator looks highly dubious. Bosch or GTFO.

6v ones are hard to find these days but you can sometimes find them in the classifieds.

If I were you I would find a dead one and install one of the Clover Systems electronic MOSFET regulators into it.

That's what I'm running.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
Hmmm that no-name regulator looks highly dubious. Bosch or GTFO.

6v ones are hard to find these days but you can sometimes find them in the classifieds.

If I were you I would find a dead one and install one of the Clover Systems electronic MOSFET regulators into it.

That's what I'm running.


Rockauto.com has 3 different manufactures to chose from $28-44.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

That said it appears to be regulating voltage properly.

I just don't understand why it's getting so hot. It should get warm but it should not get that hot
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

Starbucket wrote:

Rockauto.com has 3 different manufactures to chose from $28-44.


Ha all the units look the exact same in the pics. I suspect there's only one company making those and all those brands are selling under their name. Very Happy

And they also look the same as the one OP has.
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Christoffer
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:49 am    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies.

Just to be clear it is not the whole unit that heats up, it is the back/bottom of the unit that heats up, the connection point for the DF wire.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

Does the DF wire get hot? What about the other wires, if you find a wire that is getting hot you need to trace it to find where its grounding or just return the reg. and try a new one.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

did you remove the cover to see if the points are arced or damaged, or any other signs of over heating, burning?


also if only one connection is getting hot, perhaps it is a highresistance problem, maybe a new connectors is needed or wire or terminal needs to be cleaned, or check internally for connection issues as that may cause an over heat.

good luck
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: 1967 voltage regulator burning hot Reply with quote

Opened up the unit today and it looked to be ok, no arcing, no loose parts etc..

Tried to have headlights on when the car was running to see if that made a differens, still got hot.



In the picture the part circled in red measured 150 celsius according to my infrared thermometer.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



The DF wire does not heat up, or any other.
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