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WillSharp Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2016 Posts: 199 Location: US 80424
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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Made more good progress today.
I finished the power steering. I left the original VW bracket it place and just bent it to fit with my expansion bottle a bit. Its a bit crowded in-front of the engine now with the oil cooler, coolant filler tank, power steering bottle, and expansion tank.
The barbs on the old VW power steering tank face the opposite direction of the pump, so you have to wrap (just) the return line up and around to the pump. I used some adel clamps to hold the grey return line. This traps the supply line up in the little slot that the old VW coolant rail used to be in. Works well.
I had to bend the Pwr steering bracket a bit to squeeze in the expansion tank. Its a tight fit but it works.
Finally I connected the RMW lines to the new Bus Depot lines that run to the rack.
I wrapped up my heater lines. I did new hose front to back (not up into the dash however) I put in my bypass up front just to keep one more thing out of the engine bay. From what I understand, you have to put in a bypass on the heater hoses when doing a subie conversion because when the heater valve from the dash is closed it can cause issues. This can be easily fixed by a 5/8" by 1/2" "T" fitting.
Next I finished the remote oil cooler/filter. The relocation plates came with 10 AN fittings so I got 4 90º fittings and 6' of 10 AN stainless braided hose from Frozenboost.com for the oil supply/return.
The routing for the AN line was hard because the header is in the way of it coming out in-front of the engine and up to the cooler/filter mounted in the driver side corner. To get the lines up to the cooler/filter and work with the header, I had to route the lines backwards and then wrap them up the carrier bar and back to the cooler/filter.
Here are my lines. I made themselves. I used a angle grinder to cut the line (wrapped in tape to keep it from fraying).
I zipped them to the carrier bar with some rubber hose wrapped around and in-between the lines to prevent rubbing.
Wrapping them up backward like that was not ideal, however it was by far the best option. The whole remote filter/cooler is a bit of pain in the ass, however you need it for the turbo subarus.
For the coolant line to the cooler/filter, I modified the original cross pipe coming off the water pump and built a little bracket to hold it.
I had to do a ridiculous 180º to get the return line onto the oil cooler pipe. I consider cutting the pipe itself, however I didn't see a great spot. I could have wrapped the hose up and over and then onto the pipe, however the 180º was smaller and avoided hose pinching. Again this is not ideal, however I'm trying to fit weird subaru parts in a VW, so what do you expect...
Doing the remote filler/cooler cost me about $180 all said and done. The 10 AN line and fittings are not cheap, because their so big. I did consider doing an air to oil cooler and leaving the filter in place, however I just decided to go stock subaru. I could always change to that down the road if needed.
I bolted up my axles and got them all done.
Also, I have decided to to an air to water (AWIC) system with a small heat exchanger in the front mounted in front of the condenser (yes it will fit, I checked). I am going to get my intercooler kit from Frozen Boost also. I was trying to sort out which shape will be best to fit, so I built a card board model of the one I think will be best.
Here is what the actual one looks like:
My crude model:
Here is what I'm thinking for fitment. I will have to build a bracket to hold it.
Quick question for anyone who may know, I removed my fuel purge control system, primarily because I live in a cold climate and don't want to run a purge line all the way up to the tank. What do other people do with their purge control? Im wondering if I actually need it. |
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wesitarz Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012 Posts: 1491 Location: Victoria,B.C.Canada
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Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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If you don't have a feedback loop from coolant manifold to your thermostat using a Tom Shiels type sandwich adapter or a Smallcar type loop to the heater return near the thermostat,you may have overheating problems with your crossover at the front of the van. Typically I've seen a crossover to the heater return at the thermostat or near the engine at the firewall or using the rear heater loop. I think you only need a 3/8" crossover if near the engine (t'stat) and you want adequate heat for a colder climate. My 2 cents if your setup doesn't work the way you expect.
88 Wolfsburg auto Carat with 02 Subaru 2.5 (2003) |
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levi Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005 Posts: 5522 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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wesitarz wrote: |
If you don't have a feedback loop from coolant manifold to your thermostat using a Tom Shiels type sandwich adapter or a Smallcar type loop to the heater return near the thermostat,you may have overheating problems with your crossover at the front of the van. Typically I've seen a crossover to the heater return at the thermostat or near the engine at the firewall or using the rear heater loop. I think you only need a 3/8" crossover if near the engine (t'stat) and you want adequate heat for a colder climate. My 2 cents if your setup doesn't work the way you expect.
88 Wolfsburg auto Carat with 02 Subaru 2.5 (2003) |
I was about to post the same.
But, I've never seen it done up at the front instead, so I don't know that it WON'T work the same, its just had a really long loop of coolant added into the crossover.
GREAT attention to details!
I'm loving this conversion thread. _________________ One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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WillSharp Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2016 Posts: 199 Location: US 80424
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Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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wesitarz wrote: |
If you don't have a feedback loop from coolant manifold to your thermostat using a Tom Shiels type sandwich adapter or a Smallcar type loop to the heater return near the thermostat,you may have overheating problems with your crossover at the front of the van. Typically I've seen a crossover to the heater return at the thermostat or near the engine at the firewall or using the rear heater loop. I think you only need a 3/8" crossover if near the engine (t'stat) and you want adequate heat for a colder climate. My 2 cents if your setup doesn't work the way you expect.
88 Wolfsburg auto Carat with 02 Subaru 2.5 (2003) |
Thanks for the advise! For some reason, I completely spaced adding that to the system.
I will have to figure out how to work that in. |
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WillSharp Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2016 Posts: 199 Location: US 80424
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Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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I made a quick video with my cooling system. I figured it would be easier than trying to type it all out.
Video: https://youtu.be/qP18lM5krrU
As wesitarz and Levi stated above, I have not integrated the bypass loop. So I will have to work that in. I will post something when I do.
Also made a quick video on my power steering:
https://youtu.be/mMtvtGcmFg4 |
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panel Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2001 Posts: 1091 Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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Looks great , so far so good! _________________ My '65-Subaru EJ20 Turbo conversion |
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WillSharp Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2016 Posts: 199 Location: US 80424
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Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:52 am Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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I have a question for the community, regarding the coolant bypass.
First, can I use the smaller upper 5/8" barb on my expansion tank as my bypass off the coolant manifold? I think it is right at the water line.
2.
Can I tie it into the coolant return on my oil cooler. This dumps in right after the thermostat where I want it.
The oil cooler return is 1/2" hose, what I'm wondering is if that would be too too little capacity (w/ the coolant from the cooler) for the bypass to work properly?
Here is a updated diagram of my cooling system:
W/out bypass:
W/ Bypass to oil cooler return:
Any one know if this will work?
Thanks! |
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WillSharp Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2016 Posts: 199 Location: US 80424
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Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:15 am Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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Back to work on the project. Been in Asia for the last three weeks so just getting going again.
I went ahead and implemented the coolant bypass like the diagram in the last post. I think this should work well.
Heres the bypass installed:
Also, I got some 1/2 in vacuum line for the brake boost line. I ran it from the plastic VW line coming from the front across where the coolant rail used to be and then dropped it to 5/8" line to connect to the intake manifold.
Fuel lines are also done. Just drilled some holes and installed some rubber grommets. Also did new hard plastic line back to the tank.
Next came mounting the intercooler:
I got some angle steel and built a brake that cradles the intercooler. I drilled and tapped some holes into the intercooler (being very careful not to get metal shavings into the heat changer inside). I then used some silicone on the threads to ensure a good seal.
This brake then mounts into the big bolts that hold the slave cylinder bracket. The slave cylinder bracket fits with it on no problem. The intercooler is piggy backing the trans.
To give the rear support, I just made a quick bracket with some rubber on it to prevent wear.
I had to cut a space in the firewall above the intercooler to allow removal in the future If I need to access. I made it big enough that I can slide the IC out with the bracket on.
Got my gauges mounted on the cluster cover:
Still working on the heat exchanger for the IC. Will post when its done. |
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WillSharp Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2016 Posts: 199 Location: US 80424
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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Got the whole intercooler system wrapped up.
I mounted my heat exchanger for the intercooler in the passenger side vent box where the old air intake used to be.
I made a braket for my pump using some hose clamps and channel aluminum.
I also had to make this weird little step bracket for the heat exchanger where it mounts to the van wall.
And perhaps my most pathetic bracket yet, Epoxy wasn't sticking to the paint and I did not want to drill into it. Ugly but it actually works quite well. The tail light was the fitment difficulty.
Heres the setup. I have a inline filler cap (no tank), and a pump.
The fan will draw air from the side vents down and thru the heat exchanger. Should be plenty adequate since I'm not going to be running high boost and this is a performance system. |
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WillSharp Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2016 Posts: 199 Location: US 80424
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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I am looking to redo all the suspension on the van while I've got it in the garage. It really needs to be done. I would like to lift it using Gowesty's 1.5" lifting springs and possibly their HD Bilstien shocks. Anyone have any experience with that combo? Im also debating what to do about bushings. Are the PowerFlex bushings worth the money? Im pinching pennies right now so Im wondering what is a must and what is not.
Also is it worth redoing the upper/lower ball joints while I'm in there? I don't think there is anything wrong with mine but they are the originals with 180,000 miles on them. |
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timichango Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2012 Posts: 858 Location: Squamish, BC, Canada
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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WillSharp wrote: |
Are the PowerFlex bushings worth the money? Im pinching pennies right now so Im wondering what is a must and what is not.
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I'd definitely at least do the upper control arm bushings with powerflex — unless you want to be redoing them again in a year or two when they start squeaking.
We're on year three with powerflex, and they emit nary a sound, unlike the OEM ones we had installed when we bought the van five years ago, which shrieked like goddamn banshees from about month six. _________________ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Vroomhilde-San: Our 1991 Silver Vanagon Westy automatic + Subie EJ25 |
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Wendy.the.Westy Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2012 Posts: 91 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:02 am Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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WillSharp wrote: |
wesitarz wrote: |
If you don't have a feedback loop from coolant manifold to your thermostat using a Tom Shiels type sandwich adapter or a Smallcar type loop to the heater return near the thermostat,you may have overheating problems with your crossover at the front of the van. Typically I've seen a crossover to the heater return at the thermostat or near the engine at the firewall or using the rear heater loop. I think you only need a 3/8" crossover if near the engine (t'stat) and you want adequate heat for a colder climate. My 2 cents if your setup doesn't work the way you expect.
88 Wolfsburg auto Carat with 02 Subaru 2.5 (2003) |
Thanks for the advise! For some reason, I completely spaced adding that to the system.
I will have to figure out how to work that in. |
In a Subaru vehicle, the heater core coolant loop does not have a valve, so the coolant flows continuously through the heater core regardless of the HVAC control state. This heater core loop provides immediate and high volume engine temp feedback to the thermostat. I could see how in the Vanagon application, for a N/A subaru conversion, closing both the front and rear heater core valves would limit the coolant temp feedback to only the small volume of coolant flowing through the IAC and throttle body. However, in the Subaru turbo application, a heater core bypass already exists through the turbo coolant loop. My guess is that the additional heater core bypass that you have added will be doing nothing other than preventing your heater core from ever getting warm when you want it to since your front heater core is now permanently bypassed. _________________ ID.BUZZ |
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WillSharp Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2016 Posts: 199 Location: US 80424
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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Wendy.the.Westy wrote: |
In a Subaru vehicle, the heater core coolant loop does not have a valve, so the coolant flows continuously through the heater core regardless of the HVAC control state. This heater core loop provides immediate and high volume engine temp feedback to the thermostat. I could see how in the Vanagon application, for a N/A subaru conversion, closing both the front and rear heater core valves would limit the coolant temp feedback to only the small volume of coolant flowing through the IAC and throttle body. However, in the Subaru turbo application, a heater core bypass already exists through the turbo coolant loop. My guess is that the additional heater core bypass that you have added will be doing nothing other than preventing your heater core from ever getting warm when you want it to since your front heater core is now permanently bypassed. |
That is a really good point. I had not actually considered that.
I will take another look at the coolant system and likely remove my heater bypass.
Thanks! |
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WillSharp Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2016 Posts: 199 Location: US 80424
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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Ok, I need some help here. Does anyone know if it will be a big mistake if I remove the fuel purge control from the intake manifold? |
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Wendy.the.Westy Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2012 Posts: 91 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:33 am Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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WillSharp wrote: |
Ok, I need some help here. Does anyone know if it will be a big mistake if I remove the fuel purge control from the intake manifold? |
You can move the EVAP purge control solenoid anywhere you want. I moved it out from under the intake manifold so that it would be easier to access in the future, you just have to extend the wiring to the solenoid and then re-plumb the vacuum lines to suit. This is fairly common practice. _________________ ID.BUZZ |
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WillSharp Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2016 Posts: 199 Location: US 80424
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:46 am Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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Sorry,
I have been to busy to post what I've been up to, but Im getting really close.
heres the latest:
I towed the van down to Denver from the mountains where I live to a exhaust shop. As I mentioned previously, the up-pipe on my cheap stainless header was a bit off so that needed to be sorted before I could put my turbo on.
I had the welder at the shop modify it so that the turbo moved slightly forward (relative to van) and away from the slave cylinder.
From there, The exhaust goes way up over the driver's side axle. (The Cat is located there) and then does a 90º bend into a Magna-flow thru style muffler and then a little end piece to point it back right in front of the rear drivers wheel.
I have the exhaust all apart right now to do header wrap and some other stuff so I will post more photos as soon as its back together. The turbo is out in the photos above so the flange is not in the exact place that it sits.
Its probably going to be reasonably loud, but I wanted to maximize ground clearance so...
I replace my clutch master cylinder and then the hydraulic line that goes up to the slave. FYI the stainless braided syncro line (that goes up to the slave) will work for 2wd you just end up with 8" of extra that you have to tuck away. This hose is sold by GW, Burley, and I think van cafe.
After I got it all bled out and was actuating the slave, the slave bracket that I cut was flexing considerably every pump of the pedal. So I yanked it back out and took it to the welders that did my header and they welded a new piece in. I don't have a welder which is probably the biggest thing my garage shop is lacking.
I also had them tack on the nut for the bolt that holds the slave. I knew it would be a pain in the ass to get into it once the slave is in place.
I then got about 25' of titanium header wrap to heat wrap the up-pipe, and I ended up having enough to do the whole exhaust (its a short exhaust).
Up-pipe:
There are several lines and hoses I want to protect from heat, specifically the slave cylinder so between the header wrap and some hose/wire heat wrap I got, Im hoping I should be good.
I had to move the black wire box also, being so close to the turbo is was definitely going to melt. I had already trimmed back the fire wall under where it used to be, so I just drilled a opening for the wires to come through. fortunately, the main bundle of wires, I was able to stretch out with the firewall gone and move the box onto the adjacent wall. I had to cut the red power wire that goes to the stud inside the box, and the blue wire that it is bundled with. I just extended these about 10" so that they could make it to new box's new location.
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dgbeatty Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2006 Posts: 702 Location: Sacramento
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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Very nice execution. Do yourself a favor and throw away all of your hose clamps that are perforated, they will end up cutting the hoses over time. |
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WillSharp Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2016 Posts: 199 Location: US 80424
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:52 am Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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Wendy.the.Westy wrote: |
WillSharp wrote: |
Ok, I need some help here. Does anyone know if it will be a big mistake if I remove the fuel purge control from the intake manifold? |
You can move the EVAP purge control solenoid anywhere you want. I moved it out from under the intake manifold so that it would be easier to access in the future, you just have to extend the wiring to the solenoid and then re-plumb the vacuum lines to suit. This is fairly common practice. |
Are you reusing the subaru or VW charcoal canister? I do not have the subaru one, so I would like to reuse the VW if I can. |
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dgbeatty Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2006 Posts: 702 Location: Sacramento
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:41 am Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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The original VW works fine and has a higher capacity than the Subaru version. You might want to rebuild the VW canister as they are at best nearly 30 years old. The referees here in California insist that the cannister matches the engine. |
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WillSharp Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2016 Posts: 199 Location: US 80424
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: 2004 Subaru 2.5L DOHC turbo Vanagon conversion. |
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Been making more good progress. This project is taking a lot or work
When the up-pipe to the turbo got modified, it bumped the turbo actually about 0.75" up from stock height. This is actually is a good thing because it gives the slave cylinder more space. Anyway, this meant that all the support brackets for the up-pipe were messed up. So I made another ugly yet functional bracket to give the up-pipe a little support:
Got the turbo in to stay hopefully. I wrapped the titanium heat blanket over it too.
I got some adhesive bracket fiberglass heat shield material and wrapped the top of the slave cylinder with it. At this point, I feel pretty good about heat around it.
When I installed the turbo, I had to extend the oil return line and the insulated coolant line. For the coolant line, I reused the insulation:
The intake was a bit tricky but came out pretty well. It was a squeeze trying to get it all to fit with limited space between the turbo/throttle body and the IC.
Turbo OUTLET to the intercooler (IC):
The turbo outlet size is 2"OD and the IC inlet and outlet is 2.5"OD. I got a 90º 2" to 2.25" reducer. this then goes directly into a 2.5" coupler with a 1" stem for my blow off valve (BOV). The BOV I got from TurboSmart and it will be venting to atmosphere. The vacuum hose is not yet connected to the BOV in the photos.
Intercooler to throttle body:
This was the trickiest part. The distance between the IC and the throttle body is like 8" and very offset.
The throttle body is 2.75"OD and the IC is 2.5"OD. I got a 2.75" to 2.5" 90º reducer and 2.5" 90º bend, by trimming the ends, I was able to get the two to connect with a joiner. It is not a perfect fit but by forcing the hoses to bend a bit they connected.
Air Filter to Turbo inlet:
I decided to eliminate the original subie intake hose that goes under the intake because I am doing a aftermarket BOV and longer need to recirculate the air back to the intake (pre-turbo). There are some vacuum lines I will likely need to tap into my new intake.
The turbo inlet size is about 2.25"
I got a 2.25" to 2.5" straight reducer that goes directly onto the turbo inlet. I the got a 1' long 2.5" 45º bend aluminum pipe this fits perfectly under the intake and connects to the reducer on the turbo inlet:
Then off the 45º aluminum pipe, I have a 45º silicon 2.5" bend. This this aligns the intake with the driver side vent box.
My air cone is a K&N 3" that mounts directly to a 3" mass airflow sensor (MAS) adaptor I got that is made by Spectre Racing. This then connects to a 3" to 2.5" straight reducer that links to the rest with some straight 2.5" aluminum pipe:
I made a little bracket that holds the pipe in place:
Overview:
I will try to post a video explaining this.
I got my throttle pedal mounted. I had to make a fairly simple bracket to get it in the right spot.
I tapped some holes for the pedal to mount to. I can then adjust the angle with washers. IMPORTANT: I built a bump stop in the throttle pedal assembly because the actually throttle is wide open and about half depression of the pedals full range. If you go past that point the throttle errors out and has be be cleared with a code reader.
The bracket is cut out to fit around a strange square raise on the body.
the pedal then mounts over the carpet into the bracket:
I painted the whole pedal assembly after taking the pics to make it look a bit better.
Also, did a bunch of wire/hose heat wrapping to protect from exhaust heat.
New hydro line to slave cylinder:
Oil lines to and from cooler/filter:
Parking brake line:
Bulk wires/hoses to dash:
Im getting some stainless zip ties like the ones on the header wrap to ensure that the heat shield on the wires/hoses stays in place long term. |
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