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questions about copper stove lines
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jkallo
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:37 am    Post subject: questions about copper stove lines Reply with quote

The PO of my van removed the damaged propane tank and had a nice little pigtail adapter which allows one to use a 1# canister screwed into the line on the outside of the van. Works great unless it's pouring rain and you run out of gas etc. Yeah, if I was full-timing it, this would less than ideal.

I'd like to follow the lead of a few people here and basically plumb in that pigtail in the cabinet next to the fridge. I did some poking around in there last night, and I see that there is a joint in the line coming out of the back of the stove (which is perfect! I won't need to cut the line). I have two questions about that joint:

1. Does anyone know the size of the fittings at that joint offhand?
2. I put a wrench on it but it seemed reluctant to turn. Before I hamfist it, is that junction soldered or in some other way sealed?

Many thanks!
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Last edited by jkallo on Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: questions about copper stove lines Reply with quote

it'll come apart, use 2 wrenches if you can. one on eaach side of the flare nut

iirc it's a 3/8" flare nut fitting, it's actually the same as standard american BBQ hose fittings.. you can in fact just hook a BBQ hose with regulator (and 1#) adapter to it.. well serious legal injury may occur.. so work and play within your safety zone.

you can even get them with a braided SS hose that'll resist rodents compromising the rubber. it's low pressure hose.
there's a thread in here someplace on this subject.

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and change the tank fitting to this one. (I don't prefer to use adapters).
use GAS rated sealing tape/putty on the fitting to the regulator.
no sealing stuff required on the 3/8" flare fitting. just snug usually does it.

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CanStan
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: questions about copper stove lines Reply with quote

I can't recall the exact size of the fitting offhand, but it will be easy to figure out once you disconnect it. It seems to me it was a pretty standard size.
There shouldn't be anything holding the fitting together- although who knows what kind of crazy things have been done by PO's? You should be able to loosen it without too much effort with a 22mm(?) wrench. Good luck!

EDIT- Dan's got all the info you need above!
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: questions about copper stove lines Reply with quote

there's a elegant and controlled way to put the pressure on the fittings w/o twisting the line. most (if not all) gas fittings have a nut shape on both sides.
use 2 wrenches that fit WELL. have the handles staggered (handles are off-set some *s) so that you can grip both in the same hand and give a nice squeeze. this keeps all the force only on the nuts and minimizes side load (deflection)
it's ok to hold both wrenches with both hands simultaneously and squeeze if that offers better grip/feel/control.

and make sure you're squeezing to loosen and not tighten..

well the same procedure is used to tighten them w/o twisting the pipes.
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: questions about copper stove lines Reply with quote

becareful with propane tanks inside the vehicle. leaks can be devestating when contained in a vehicle. Seen an RV propane tank explode once, really bad, life flight helo had to evacuate the burn victims. Talk about a huge fire ball, I was supprised anyone needed evac, I figured the meat wagon would need be called. Can you vent to outside the cabinet you want to keep the tank in?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: questions about copper stove lines Reply with quote

Thanks much all -- I think I have the info I need to get this done.

And thanks for the concerns about the dangers -- I definitely appreciate them. My plan is to only have the tank hooked up while being used and to keep the cabinet door open when in use.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: questions about copper stove lines Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
Seen an RV propane tank explode once


Clarification: (...BBus86 & JKallo it's clear that you know this stuff)

Propane tanks don't explode. There's no oxygen or ignition source inside a propane tank.

RVs explode when a leaking tank fills the vehicle with propane, mixing with the existing oxygen in the vehicle. Then all it takes is a "spark", perhaps from a door-switch when you open the door. That's why you should avoid carrying propane tanks inside the vehicle, enough propane could leak out into the enclosed volume to create an RV-bomb.

Lots of people carry propane inside and they "seldom leak". Seldom is the operative word here, and then there's another level of safety, which is "leaks seldom ignite". But once could be enough. Shocked

One of the reasons to do it all outside is to reduce the count of "connections" on the inside. Less chances of an inside leak.

You could think of going outside as "pennance" for letting the main tank go empty, if it happened more than once or twice in the rain (if that's a terrible thing) you'd simply not let it go empty.

If I had a 1-lb cylinder on a hose outside on the drivers side I would most certainly drive off with it dangling on the hose.
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Last edited by Sodo on Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: questions about copper stove lines Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:
Seen an RV propane tank explode once


Clarification: (...BBus86 & JKallo it's clear that you know this stuff)

Propane tanks don't explode. There's no oxygen or ignition source inside a propane tank.

RVs explode when a leaking tank fills the vehicle with propane, mixing with the existing oxygen in the vehicle. Then all it takes is a "spark", perhaps from a door-switch when you open the door. That's why you should avoid carrying propane tanks inside the vehicle, enough propane could leak out into the enclosed volume to create an RV-bomb.

Lots of people carry propane inside and they "seldom leak". Seldom is the operative word here, and then there's another level of safety, which is "leaks seldom ignite". But once could be enough. Shocked

If I had a 1-lb cylinder on a hose outside on the drivers side I would most certainly drive off with it dangling on the hose.



In fact the danger of tanks of flammable stuff is so bad that my welding supply place no longer allows me to pick up tanks with a car or van, the tanks now must be carried in an open vehicle like a pick up.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: questions about copper stove lines Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
In fact the danger of tanks of flammable stuff is so bad that my welding supply place no longer allows me to pick up tanks with a car or van, the tanks now must be carried in an open vehicle like a pick up.


I don't think the danger is so bad, otherwise it would happen more often. The welding supply places are all national chains these days, a big target with deep pocket$ for our lawsuit industry. Even if the customer is at fault there's a lot of $$$ motivation to shift fault to the deep pocket; and generate a "settlement". It adds cost and trouble to everything we do but US citizens are used to it and basically OK with the legal industry drawing that "tax" on almost everything.

Putting gasoline in your fuel tank is more risky and that's reasonably safe. And it's done fairly often too. Morons are allowed to do it (everywhere but Oregon) and it tends to work out.
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: questions about copper stove lines Reply with quote

True that propane explosions seldom happen, but when they do they can be bad.

I recall this one in my hometown many years back:

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/history/retroindy/2014/01/15/coliseum-explosion/4495037/
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: questions about copper stove lines Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:
In fact the danger of tanks of flammable stuff is so bad that my welding supply place no longer allows me to pick up tanks with a car or van, the tanks now must be carried in an open vehicle like a pick up.


I don't think the danger is so bad, otherwise it would happen more often. The welding supply places are all national chains these days, a big target with deep pocket$ for our lawsuit industry. Even if the customer is at fault there's a lot of $$$ motivation to shift fault to the deep pocket; and generate a "settlement". It adds cost and trouble to everything we do but US citizens are used to it and basically OK with the legal industry drawing that "tax" on almost everything.

Putting gasoline in your fuel tank is more risky and that's reasonably safe. And it's done fairly often too. Morons are allowed to do it (everywhere but Oregon) and it tends to work out.



Id not equate the dangers of filling an automotive gas tank at a service station with the storing of propane in an enclosed space with open flame present, the later is a bit more risky in event of a significant leak or spill. The open flame or other source of spark is the problem when fumes accumilate in an enclosed space. Most service stations dispense fuel in an open space with lots of ventalation
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