Grinding going into 3rd

[danosrs]

got the wife a 62 Beetle. When up and down shifting it will grind a little going into 3rd, it will also grind going into reverse but I think that's no big deal. All other gears are good.

I adjusted the clutch since it was engaging about half way up so now it fully engages at about 3/4 up. Tried to adjust the shifter and no matter where I positioned it, it really made no difference. It never really changed anything. I was figuring it would at least make it difficult or grind in another gear? Am I missing anything? I checked the shifter, the plate and spring are there and its not sloppy as per vW beetle expectations.

[rugblaster]

Probably 3 gear syncro ring. Damn junk. Drive it 55 years, and it flies all to pieces.
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!

[danosrs]

I was told it was rebuilt by Jims Custom VW in Ohio. Also had the shift rod, front bushings and mount replaced and rear adjuster installed. If no other options then I guess it will go back to Jim for his expertise.
_________________
1962 Ragtop
2056cc type 4 upright conversion.
Dual HPMX 44
Highway flyer trans

[rugblaster]

Sounds like you have all the other bases covered. The 3/4 use the same part (2 of them) and it is obvious when they are worn to the point you grind going into gear. There is a new part and wear limit you check when you have it in front of you.

Good luck.
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!

[vwracerdave]

Grinding going into gear is always blamed on the syncros but most of the time it is something else causing the problem. When was the last time the gear oil was changed?
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[modok]

I agree. it may need the oil changed. Or it might have the wrong kind of oil in there.

[rugblaster]

He said it was built by Jim in a VW garage.....How many kinds of gear oil go in a '62?

And wouldn't it grind in the other gears if it were the oil? Why just 3rd?
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!

[modok]

Because the third gear syncro is weak, I assume.
Does it go in "too easy" or "too hard"?

I've got the syncros to "come back to life" a surprising amount putting in good oil. If the oil is really thick from old age, or they put in oil not intended for a syncronized transmission, then it can cause poor shifting.
I went to go buy some today and two stores had NONE. they have five kinds of oil for rear axles but not a single bottle for a honda/toyota/subaru/vw manual trans.

If it's freshly built, then the oil is probably not old, but it might be wrong.

[[email protected]]

If it's grinding going into reverse, the pressure plate is not fully releasing the clutch disc to allow the mainshaft to come to a complete stop. If you feel the pedal free play is properly adjusted, I'd do some further looking into the clutch/pp. If there is an issue, and the vehicle has been driven a while like that, it could have damaged the syncro on 3rd.

[modok]

Agreed.
Almost always "grinds into reverse" means: Clutch dragging.

[rugblaster]

Or you could just use the clutch in 1st and shift without it through the rest of the gears......That's fun to do, with practice.
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!

[danosrs]

Thanks for all the great comments. I suspect I have more going on then clutch adjustment or shifter placement. It's seems ok going into gear. When going into reverse it's clear the tranny is spinning and if you hold the clutch longer it makes no difference. Just got the bug and it's been since the 80's since I had a 72 1302 in West Germany and I have forgot a lot.
_________________
1962 Ragtop
2056cc type 4 upright conversion.
Dual HPMX 44
Highway flyer trans

[danosrs]

Thanks for all the great comments. I suspect I have more going on then clutch adjustment or shifter placement. It's seems ok going into gear. When going into reverse it's clear the tranny is spinning and if you hold the clutch longer it makes no difference. Just got the bug and it's been since the 80's since I had a 72 1302 in West Germany and I have forgot a lot.
_________________
1962 Ragtop
2056cc type 4 upright conversion.
Dual HPMX 44
Highway flyer trans

[rugblaster]

Herzlich willkommen and viel glück!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!

[danosrs]

Any opinion if its ok to drive like it is until I can fix the problem? Still if fun to drive.
_________________
1962 Ragtop
2056cc type 4 upright conversion.
Dual HPMX 44
Highway flyer trans

[rugblaster]

If it is the 3rd speed syncro causing the problem, you won't do the 3/4 slider and the 3rd gear hub any favors by continuing to force it in gear. All the syncro ring does is act as a brake to match the rotation speeds of the mainshaft and the pinion. The rotation of the pinion is determined by the rotation of the ring gear, diff, axles, wheels and tires. You can use the foot feed to match the pinion speed to the mainshaft without pushing in the clutch and the shifter will just fall in gear. In this case, you don't even need a synchronizer ring in there. But it takes practice and feel.
_________________
'69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)

VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!!

[danosrs]

I really don't think I'm having to force onto gear all feel the same. I think I will just let it sit until I can get it fixed. Thanks for your imput.
_________________
1962 Ragtop
2056cc type 4 upright conversion.
Dual HPMX 44
Highway flyer trans

[danosrs]

I really don't think I'm having to force onto gear all feel the same. I think I will just let it sit until I can get it fixed. Thanks for your input.
_________________
1962 Ragtop
2056cc type 4 upright conversion.
Dual HPMX 44
Highway flyer trans

[[email protected]]

I wouldn't drive it until you have a chance to get it repaired. If you are planning on taking over to Jim's to get checked out, I would take it over to him as soon as possible. March through July is his busiest time of the year. The longer you wait, the longer your turn around time will get.

[Casting Timmy]

Random thought, don't some clutch arm combo's give lack of pull? Might also just check pulling the pedals and check the front arm for wear and giving out. The clutch arm on the trans could be 60 something millimeters or 100.

Some of the early pedal arms are too short to move the 100 clutch arm far enough on the back end. Could also be a bad arm in the tunnel.

I'd try and ifugre out why the clutch doesn't disengage first.