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"Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

Information on crank trigger ignition systems... Not all the best information but a place to start...

Samba thread - Crank trigger pressure port:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714876

https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/hardware/crank-trigger/

https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/hardware/diypnp/documentation/diypnp-v1-5/ignition-control/

http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/ms3pro_manual_1.4.1.pdf/ms3pro_manual_1.4.1-98.html

http://downloads.vems.com/documentation/VEMS_V3installandsetupmanual.pdf

https://wiki.autosportlabs.com/MegaJolt_Lite_Jr.

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=21543

http://www.cranecams.com/uploads/instructions/9000-1011a.pdf

Dale
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

Thanks Dale.

Please, let's keep this technical.

If you want to discuss pros and cons, use one of the many existing topic.
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DeathBySnuSnu
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

How I mounted the crank trigger wheel and vr.

Whittled out a pulley hub with a step to fit a ford 36-1 missing tooth timing wheel.

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Then whittled out a pulley to fit my app.

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Assembly, the missing tooth wheel is not pressed on the step in the pic. Has to be degree wheeled into position.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

The vr mount.

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DeathBySnuSnu
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

Or......just do it the easy way and call Mario at The Dub Shop and buy a modified pulley, the vr and mount already made up. I think it is added onto a steel empi pulley.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

One big thing to remember.....
You can NOT just leave the distributor out.
You MUST pull the drive gear out or make a dummy distributer drive end to put in the hole to keep the gear in place.

If not the gear will thrust up and out of line. The brass worm on the crank will eat up and fill your engine with nice fine brass shavings that dont stick to your magnetic drain plug.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:50 am    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

DeathBySnuSnu wrote:
The vr mount.

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Sweet , same alternator I run under my Fan ... and for you Fabricators this G.M. alternator 3 bolts on the case line up exactly with the 3 holes on a Porsche fan housing ..
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:27 am    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

Ok here's 2 examples of trigger mounts I have used , top and bottom depending on what you like or need , Basically a readily available ford taurus magnetic 2 wire crank sensor or you can run a 3 wire hall effect sensor that are cheap and accurate , ford 36 tooth with one missing crank wheel .. Its triggering a M.S- 2 running M.S. Extra software . wasted spark COP coils out of a dodge charger and for drivers you will have to run 4- bip's so you can drive each coil . you can buy these driver boxes now so its easy to do without having to build it ..
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

here are the coils mounted
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

This is the driver box im using to fire four COP's in waste spark , you will have to run M.S extra firmware

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:49 am    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

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For you guys who choose to build your own driver . I think either the Bip373 or the VB921 are not available anymore but I don't remember which one ..


The Bosch BIP373 transistor has served in many different Bosch ECUs and ignition modules. They’ve been available to ECU and ignition module manufacturers for some time in wholesale lots, but now we are making these transistors available in retail quantities for the hobbyist market. We’ve done extensive testing on them and found these make a great drop-in replacement for the now-discontinued VB921 IGBT ignition drivers commonly used in MegaSquirt ECUs. Not only do they drop right in, we’ve found they are much harder to destroy if the output or dwell settings are incorrectly configured. In fact we’ve been trying really hard and we haven’t been able to burn one up yet!

Like the VB921, the BIP373 is a transistor in a TO-220 package designed to drive ignition coils. The pinout is exactly the same as a VB921. There is one key difference in building a Megasquirt using BIP373s: The BIP373 is not in an insulated package, so you must use a mica insulator when mounting it on a heat sink. Other than that, it works in any circuit that you can use a VB921 in. When driving a single BIP373 from a processor output, we recommend using a 330 ohm resistor in the wire connected to the base for both MS1/Extra and MS2/Extra applications. When driving two BIP373s from one output for firing coil-on-plug applications in a wasted spark mode, you’ll also use 330 ohm resistors, one resistor per BIP373.

Bosch BIP373s have both output current limiting and thermal shutdown built in. The data sheet puts the typical current limiting at 11.5 amps with a maximum of 16 amps. The thermal shutdown range is between 185 and 210 degrees C with a typical shutdown at 195C. Basically that means the BIP373 will provide a hotter spark that a VB921, and if you configure it wrong and it gets hot, it shuts itself down instead of turning on the pyrotechnics.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

Here is an example of using a bosch ignition module

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

This is the easy way to set up your 36 tooth wheel on any 4 cylinder , Engine at TDC , crank sensor right on tooth 9 and this puts the missing tooth in the exact place for ease of set up , yes you can put the sensor anywhere that makes it easy for you but then you will have to make the proper settings in your set up ..



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

Some crank trigger parts...

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2093.htm

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2092.htm

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/7073.htm

Lots of technology here... Always hear good thing about Mario..

http://www.thedubshop.net/

http://www.thedubshop.net/crank-trigger

Dale
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Last edited by Dale M. on Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

Dale M. wrote:
Some crank trigger parts...

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2093.htm

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2092.htm

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/7073.htm

Lots of technology here... Always hear good thing about Mario..

http://www.thedubshop.net/

Dale


Mario is excellent for guys who don't want to do allot of figuring out , he's a ton of help and will get you running quick .. with good products
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

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this is the mini cam sensor from the Dub shop , its an easy way to go sequential ..
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

raul arrese wrote:
modok wrote:
For those that like this "programmable" stuff, consider the
"Daytona Sensors TCS-1"
it is programmable advance curve, it costs 150$

Works with VR sensor or 12volt square wave input signal, so basically anything.
Function like a MSD 8680, 8980, 8981, but programmable

The instructions say it is for triggering CDI boxes, but for those that prefer inductive, you can use it to trigger a TFI module. it could also be used in-line to alter the timing of a distributor WITHOUT locking it. It might also read points, but who would be crazy enough to use POINTS Shocked


You can put it on the sticky Modok


Actually priced a little higher on their site,

http://shop.daytonasensors.net/products/tcs-1-timing-control-system

Installation notes /manual...

http://nebula.wsimg.com/7d1431ada7cf5b57349f745727...oworigin=1

Dale
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

raul arrese wrote:
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this is the mini cam sensor from the Dub shop , its an easy way to go sequential ..

Do you run sequential? It's tempting as a fun thing to do, but I think it's a waste on a camper engine and even more set up. Would be good with some feedback from each cylinder to set up the injectors individually.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

raul arrese wrote:
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this is the mini cam sensor from the Dub shop , its an easy way to go sequential ..

^^^^^^^^
This does not eliminate the "slop" in the brass gear, driveshaft and drive dog.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: "Official" Crank Trigger Ignition Information Reply with quote

My understanding is that it only provides the sequence signal, timing is still controlled by crank wheel and sensor and the map programmed in the ecu.
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