ACDelco 12v starter for 6v VW?

[jbclem]

I've been looking around for a replacement starter for my 1965 Bug, converted to 12v but still using the 6v starter. I was just looking for another 6v starter because the conversion ones I've come across are very expensive.

But I found an ACDelco starter (#336-1308) that seems to be a 12v starter for 6v bugs. Here's the ACDelco page on two starters for 6v bugs: http://parts-catalog.acdelco.com/catalog/catalog_search.php . It's the second one.

On Amazon this starter is selling for $39.65 w/free shipping and a possible $9 rebate. And no mention of a core charge although it's remanufactured.

Does anyone know if this information is correct? Has anyone tried this starter?

John

[Abscate]

A remanufactured Bosch SRX11 starter sells competively for around $100-120 plus shipping.

A $30 starter from Amazon will be different.
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[jbclem]

"A $30 starter from Amazon will be different.""

Yes, much cheaper. Besides that, is there proof that there is a difference?

[Sharp64]

Do you have a 6 volt flywheel or a 12v flywheel? If 6 volt you can't just switch starters. You need to change the flywheel and grind out the bellhousing to do it right.
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[jbclem]

I have a 6v flywheel but my 1965 bug is converted to 12v. I'm using the original 6v starter, but there's a problem developing and I'm looking for a replacement. The ACDelco 12v starter I'm asking about is advertised as fitting a 6v bug (1958-65). So I'm thinking it's a conversion starter, and if it is then it's a very inexpensive one. I've seen other conversion starters being sold here for $200-300.

[VOLKSWAGNUT]

IMO..
Go to your local FLAPS.. Autozone, Oreilly's, Advance.. NAPA etc.... buy the 6v starter you need.. one with a lifetime warranty ... install a new starter bushing too .. and move on away from mail web order. Too much hassle sometimes when there is a problem..

I used a 6 volt starter on 12 volts for over 20 years on a driver... and .. when it finally failed.. I swapped it out.. and eventually put it on another car.... still have the starter..

A reman is a reman.. Delco is just buying them from whoever... not much difference than your Friendly Local Auto Parts Store.. or mudFLAPS store..



.
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[Erik G]

Your link doesn't work so I have no idea what you are talking about. That part number you posted is a remanufactured 12v starter, no different from any of them available at your local auto parts store
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[pwmcguire]

no, its not a 6 volt starter for a 12 volt system. They recognize that people convert to 12 volts. So its a 12 volt starter for a 12 volt flywheel. Use a 6 volt starter with a 12 volt solenoid. If a 6 volt starter fails on a 12 volt system, it will most likely be the solenoid. I ran one like this on my 66 for a couple of years.

[Wayne S. Johnson]

[jbclem]

To see the ACDelco page, that I thought I linked to, it looks like you have to enter 1965 Volkswagen Beetle and then choose "Electrical" then "Starter".

Alternately, I've put a copy of a jpg of that page in my Dropbox. If this works it should show the ACDelco page with the two starters. The second one (336-1308) is the one I'm wondering about.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d8yb679ytcknz6i/ACDelco%206v%20starters.jpg?dl=0

There is no indication, from ACDelco, that this is a starter for later 12v bugs. It lists the year range as 54-66. If this is wrong, then I'll just look for another 6v starter. Then the issue is should I get a used Bosch 6v starter or a new cheap starter such as the other ACDelco. Can a used, probably high mileage, Bosch starter stand up to 12volts longer than a new cheapo starter.

BTW, I originally checked O'Reilly and NAPA and what they had seemed to be Chinese. I think ACDelco is USA made.

If no one here has tried this starter, I'll try calling ACDelco and see what they know.

[VOLKSWAGNUT]

The Delco catalog is very generic.. .. it pulls everything that may fit..

If you expand the list of vehicles it reads 12 volts for 54-79.. = wrong..
http://parts-catalog.acdelco.com/catalog/BuyersGui...ttype=4152

Expand the pictures shows the difference in shaft and gear size...

Another case of knowing what you need vs what a catalog shows will fit.

Proceed with another 6 Volt starter or buy the Hybrid.


.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited

[jbclem]

I did expand the photos of the two starters (6v and 12v) and tried measuring the shaft size with a caliper. They both seemed to be very close to each other in size. I also counted the gear teeth and came up with the just about same number of visible gear teeth.

Do you know the diameter dimension for the two different shafts? And also the tooth count on the different gears. I'd think the tooth count would be notably different, and I didn't see that. The two photos are slightly different in size, but not by much so I'd also think that visually a 12v shaft should be noticeably smaller in diameter.

[ZENVWDRIVER]

... we converted our 6v 1960 single cab to 12v leaving the 6v flywheel and 6v starter in place... has been this way since 2007, with no problems...
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[Johnous]

I am running a 1966 beetle that has been converted to 12V. It uses a bosch 6V starter with a 12V starter solenoid from a 12V 1967 beetle. The solenoid was $20 from a FLAPS. This has helped my starting/grinding issues... but only after installing an undamaged flywheel.

Even if you change the starter motor entirely, the flywheel teeth have been damaged. You may need to change the flywheel as well to fully address the grinding issue at startup. Flywheels tend to come to rest at the same locations when you shut the engine off, so a new starter will still have difficulty engaging a damaged flywheel. No hybrid starter, new starter, or new solenoid will address that issue.

[jbclem]

Johnous, I've wondered about replacing the 6v solenoid with a 12v one but always thought you'd need to replace the motor windings also. What is it that wears down the flywheel teeth the most, the 6v solenoid throwing the gear out too fast and with too much force, or the 6v motor spinning too fast? Does you starter still turn over the engine real fast so it starts on the first or second spin.

Is it a bolt-on affair to install the 12v solenoid or do you have to make some changes, do a little soldering?

As far as the flywheel goes, the noise I hear doesn't sound like a flywheel grind. It feels more like the starter gear isn't being thrown out all the way some of the time and the noise is more of a zing with a little meshing noise. Flywheel grinds that I remember are a much stronger and nastier noise. And it's more of a sporatic problem (but occurring more and more now)...the starter will fail 2-4 times in a row then on the 5th try it'll work normally. Then when the engine warms up it won't happen for a while, but it always comes back. It doesn't quite feel like a flywheel grind...but I won't really know until I remove the starter and check the flywheel teeth.

[Johnous]

An attempt to answer some of your questions is below. This is a pretty common issue, as far as I know, on 12v conversions. I will admit that I took a 3/4-assed (bit more than half-assed) way to fix this issue. As others have said before, using a full 12v set up and grinding the transmission is the proper fix. However, this worked for me in my situation.

[jbclem]

Here's a followup to my starter situation:

I ended up buying a 6v Ultima remanufactured starter from a local O'Reilly, $46.99 plus $3.60 core charge. When I first checked, all they had was Chinese, but their manager took the time to search around (beyond calling the local warehouse) and found a USA made one at an upstate warehouse. It took a while, but it was finally shipped down here and I installed it and that fixed the problem I was having.

My flywheel had the usual wear, shiny areas on the teeth, but no sign of any really worn down teeth. And it's starting without any noises other than the normal starter noise.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

John