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Hazard warning light issues Relay? 2(4)x21W-12W or 12V 4x21W
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vwsplitvan
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Hazard warning light issues Relay? 2(4)x21W-12W or 12V 4x21W Reply with quote

Our 62 US import single cab has failed its MOT as when the hazard light switch is pulled only the rears flash.


The turn signals all work front and back and also all the the lights work fine.

Just the problem with the fronts not working or flashing when the hazard switch pulled.


The bus is 12v and had a new loom installed 5 or so years back and wiring all looks good.

Any ideas what could be the problem? Or where I need to look? I have cleaned all terminals and checked for dodgy connections.

I thought the issue may be in the flasher unit 211 953 215 C 96M1J 2(4)x21W-12W is currently fitted. The bus still has US spec lights.

I bought an NOS flasher unit from europe but when I install that one it clicks constantly and still no front flashers. same part no. but 12V 4x21W.

What am I missing that is causing this?

thanks in advance for any advice
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Last edited by vwsplitvan on Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:20 pm; edited 2 times in total
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low54
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Hazard warning light issues Relay? Reply with quote

I would start by cleaning up all the terminals and also just try wiggling them while the flashers are on you might find that makes them work I've just rewired my van and had the same issue just moving the wires on the terminals fixed the issue.
Do the indicators work fine when turned on?
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vwsplitvan
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: Hazard warning light issues Relay? Reply with quote

Obviously I have cleaned every terminal and no change. jiggled wires to check for dodgy connections etc.

It is like the original US flasher unit has a fault so I replaced it with the euro one mentioned above and no change just another issue with it clicking constant.


Only other thing I noticed was that the bulb in the speedo was not indicating / flashing when turning. So will check the bulb tomorrow. Maybe this is the cause?

The unit I am using has -31 ground , KBL = blue wire to speedo, +49 and 49a
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ToolBox
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: Hazard warning light issues Relay? 2(4)x21W-12W or 12V 4x21W Reply with quote

Did you check the connections and relay behind the passengers front kick panel? Check to make sure the hazard switch is correct.
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vwsplitvan
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: Hazard warning light issues Relay? 2(4)x21W-12W or 12V 4x21W Reply with quote

It has the US spec black relay box 4 tab as mentioned above.


Been thru all connections and even added new earth on rear light units.

The bus is a 62 and had new loom a few years back. Wiring is all super clean.

It has the black plastic 12V flasher unit box and then behind passenger kick it has the original 6V flasher relay that clips to metal bracket.

The turn signal arm switch on column is the 6 wire version.

Only thing I have noticed is that the blue wire to bulb in speedo does not light up and the bulb is good ??
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ToolBox
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: Hazard warning light issues Relay? 2(4)x21W-12W or 12V 4x21W Reply with quote

vwsplitvan wrote:

It has the black plastic 12V flasher unit box and then behind passenger kick it has the original 6V flasher relay that clips to metal bracket.



It needs a 12 volt HAZARD RELAY (J1) along with a 12 flasher relay (J). Flasher relay lives on the left side behind the kickpanel and the hazard relay is on the right side.

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vwsplitvan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Hazard warning light issues Relay? 2(4)x21W-12W or 12V 4x21W Reply with quote

I have the 12v Black plastic box flasher unit behind left side kick panel. (This is the one that I think needs to be US type to make the fronts flash).

and the rights side has the hazard relay metal unit.


This all worked fine previously so It must be a fault in the flasher unit on left.

The blue wire to speedo turn indicator bulb does not flash. removed it and it does not flash either.

The bus has 6 wire indicator switch arm on column.
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coolerthanelvis
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Hazard warning light issues Relay? 2(4)x21W-12W or 12V 4x21W Reply with quote

The HAZARD Relay (J1) is the culprit. This provides separation between the front and rear lights so that the front doesn't light up every time you step on the brakes. The diagram shows 5 connections on J1 but your metal box on the right side only has 4 terminals. This is because the ground (EARTH to you) is connected to the metal can which in turn connects to the body of the bus via the mounting clip. This is often a poor connection due to corrosion or just the paint on the mounting tab. Wiggle the can and get the clip to dig into the paint a little bit. You could also attach a wire to the metal can and attach it to a metal body part with a screw and ring terminal.
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vwsplitvan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Hazard warning light issues Relay? 2(4)x21W-12W or 12V 4x21W Reply with quote

I will check that ground again and add a separate ground wire to it.

The main issue is that when I select the hazard switch only the rear turn lights flash and nothing up front on the turn lights / hazards.

The turn signals front and back work fine when operated thru the turn switch on column.
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coolerthanelvis
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:56 am    Post subject: Re: Hazard warning light issues Relay? 2(4)x21W-12W or 12V 4x21W Reply with quote

vwsplitvan wrote:
The main issue is that when I select the hazard switch only the rear turn lights flash and nothing up front on the turn lights / hazards.


That is exactly the purpose of the metal relay on the right side: Making sure nothing up front lights up when the brakes are pressed. When not functioning properly, it maintains the separation when it should be providing connection to allow the lights up front to, uh, light.
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ToolBox
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: Hazard warning light issues Relay? 2(4)x21W-12W or 12V 4x21W Reply with quote

coolerthanelvis wrote:
vwsplitvan wrote:
The main issue is that when I select the hazard switch only the rear turn lights flash and nothing up front on the turn lights / hazards.


That is exactly the purpose of the metal relay on the right side: Making sure nothing up front lights up when the brakes are pressed. When not functioning properly, it maintains the separation when it should be providing connection to allow the lights up front to, uh, light.


It is also a dual make relay that has 2 sets of isolated contacts to keep this seperation. If you can't find a dual make relay you can use 2 standard relays to accomplish the same function.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


http://www.the12volt.com/relays/relays.asp
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vwsplitvan
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Hazard warning light issues Relay? 2(4)x21W-12W or 12V 4x21W Reply with quote

The original black box on the lhs USA spec one

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



The USA one and the Euro one side by side. U can see the configuration type for the lights I was thinking this was the cause here by putting the euro one in.

The USA version when I opened it looked like it had been messed about with like old repairs but I could be going off on one in wrong direction here.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


and this one is on the RHS behind the kick panels. I will add an extra ground to it. This is the one that splits the front and back circuits.

Everything works great except for lack of front hazard lights

Sure the pics make it more useful
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vwsplitvan
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Hazard warning light issues Relay? 2(4)x21W-12W or 12V 4x21W Reply with quote

Thanks it was the ground connection on the rhs flasher relay unit.

When I pushed the unit hard against the mount bracket the hazards worked on the front too. But once I let go of the unit the connection soon failed again.

I will look at improving the ground.

What have others done? soldered or just screwed a ground to the casing?


Thanks for the advice Smile
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