Vanagon 091 trans will not go into reverse

[ERN Wah]

Hello all,

I already searched the relevant forums for this issue and none have helped so far.

After a rebuild of the trans I reinstalled it and drove about 200 miles. Being OCD I was hearing a “lub lub” noise sometimes when coasting. I tore her back out and brought her to the shop and they went through her again and found nothing. Reinstalled and drove about 500 miles. Still have the sound but other wise runs great… until two days ago when I didn’t have reverse. Got home late and started to mess around and oddly enough I found first gear where reverse should be.

Next morning first was back where she should be but no reverse.

I ran through the Bentley to align the shift linkages… nothing. Still have 1st through 4th but no reverse. I checked that the boot at the transaxle shift linkage was not bunching up behind the linkage stopping it from fully engaging reverse. I completely disconnected the shift linkages and manually put it in reverse. (It sounds like it went in) I started the van and let off the clutch… nothing. No noise grinding no change in sound or vibration. Just the sound of my heart hitting the floor.

All bushings and tabs are new.

Looking for anything I have not considered that will help me not have to remove this thing for the third time in one year .

[DuncanS]

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=277148
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=445663
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=239977

Duncan

[markswagen]

can we have some pictures of your linkage, as it sits at the moment.

have you made the adjustment spacer to go in the front, 23mm as noted on page 34.9
and you are 100% sure, that the linkage at the back, is all assembled correctly, l've seen the two halves, that capture the rear shift ball, fitted on the wrong side of the mounting bracket, it all looked OK, but it would not let us have all the gears.
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markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310

[djkeev]

Not a lot of experience/ knowledge with these but I vote linkage issues.
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[ERN Wah]

Though I would think that disconnecting everything and putting it in reverse manually (by pushing in and turning the shifter on the trans to the rear) would tell me there is a problem in the transmission and it is not a shifter linkage problem.

What am I missing? I ask this humbly. Just trying to learn and fix this issue so let's bring it back to basics if needed.

Just added the pics to OP. The alignment was definitely off because I did not realign it after testing manually.

Markswagen, yes I did use the Bently and ensured the spacer was set properly. Though my Bently says 22mm not 23mm.

[MarkWard]

In my experience if you are manually shifting into reverse at the transaxle and reverse is not there, you are correct it’s internal. Unlike the 091/1 4 speed, the 091 does reverse a little differently. Unfortunately it’s vague to me. Do you recall if the sleeve that connects the input shaft to the main shaft had gear teeth? Not sure why I am thinking that. I’d have to have the manual in front of me. The 091 from memory has adjustable forks that are pinched to the shaft. I imagine something could come loose.

I don’t want to tell you wrong, but I think the 091, you can remove the front cover by lowering the transaxle and see the shift rods and manually operate them. Sorry my memories are fading.
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[markswagen]

so, the spacer you need in the front, depending on your VIN, should be either 19mm or 22mm

last year l did an aircooled to subaru conversion, and replaced EVERYTHING, on test drive day, l couldn't find reverse, it turned out that the guide ring, on the guide pin, which goes into the end of the linkage, had snapped.
it was a new part, l don't remember where it came from.
anyway, l spend over an hour trying to get all the gears due to the slop this broken ring caused.

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markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310

[ERN Wah]

Thanks for the responses. I replaced the guide ring when I first installed the rebuilt transaxle.

I am with MarkWard: With it failing to go into reverse after manually putting it there I am ruling out (for now) the shift linkages. I will inspect the guide ring and all other components when I remove them to get to the front cover.

I have never worked on a transmission's internals before and am a bit reluctant. I am hoping to hear from anyone with experience to give me one or two things to check while I am in there.

Also on the hunt for other ideas I have not considered yet. Please keep them coming.

And Happy 4th weekend. Thanks for helping on you long holiday weekend.

[MarkWard]

Send a PM to member AndyBees. I know he has spent time with the 091. Tell him I sent you.
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[AndyBees]

[ERN Wah]

AndyBees, Thanks so much for helping out.

This Van is new to me. I bought it California and drove it to WA with no 3rd gear. Hence the rebuild. I do not recall a lub lub noise on the drive up but do now. The noise instantly goes away once I press the clutch. It persists when coasting in gear and accelerating but I can find a sweet spot where it is not present. I only really notice it at higher speeds. The shifting was always smooth after I replaced all the bushings and aligned everything. No issues going into gear.

Before opening the trans I will be triply sure it is not the selector linkage. I will try to take a video and post it so you can hear it go into gear .

I was hoping to go on our first road trip next week but now I'm working this out. I may just have to be that guy and drive without reverse. Always parking uphill.javascript:emoticon('')

I will let you know what I find.

[danfromsyr]

lub lub noise is (IMO) most likely a CV joint that's getting dry or maybe it's not floating or is indexed bad.

I can't see what in a transaxle would go Lub-Lub especially in the circumstances you outline. fwiw 'coasting in gear' is also referred to as 'decelerating' which is a condition that also effects a binding CV joint. *as well as under power/throttle
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[AndyBees]

Dan, I agree and it was my thought as well that a CV Joint could be causing the noise.

Indexing and repacking the CV Joints can eliminate or rule-out this theory.
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'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.

[ERN Wah]

Thank you everyone for chiming in with your ideas.

After one last unsuccessful attempt to manually engage reverse, I drained the oil to get ready to remove the transaxle. Here is what I found on the drain plug.

A circlip, and I could feel a gear on the bottom of the transaxle.

I got the transaxle removed last night and called the guy who did the rebuild, the PNW famous Gary Zink, and he told me to bring it over and he and I would tear it apart together.

After opening it up we immediately saw the problem. The circlip that held the reverse gear in place came off and allowed the gear to drop to the bottom of the transaxle.

We replaced the reverse gear and shaft to be safe. Gary said he had never seen that before in all his years of working on VW transaxles.

We went through each gear since had everything apart and also found 1st with some damaged teeth. We replaced that as well.

Got to his house at 0830 and left by 1100 with a repaired reverse and first gear. It was an amazing Master Class by Gary. I highly recommend him. He wouldn't take any money from me even though we worked on the 4th of July. He is a great guy.

I got home and put the transaxle in and all was repaired in about 26 hours.

I am following the advice regarding the CV joints. They are indexed and I repacked them with fresh grease. Gary also suggested flipping the axles to rotate the CV joints. I'll let you all know when I take my first test drive. I'm just reconnecting wires and waiting for it to cool off outside.

Thanks again.

Ernie

[MarkWard]

That’s the failure I had in mind. Memory is not as sharp. The missing teeth is actually documented here. Something to do with getting fresher teeth to hold. The mod has a name, but that escapes me too.
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[AndyBees]

I'm curious whether or not the Concave Washer was installed on the Reverse Idler Shaft. The Concave Washer puts pressure on the Circlip assisting with keeping it in place as well as removing any axial play. It is a challenge to install that Circlip while pushing in on the Concave Washer.

With the Reverse Idler Gear off, I suspect the shaft may have vibrated into the main case. That could possibly have allowed the Reverse gear to move into the Synchro Teeth of 1st Gear when you shifted into 2nd Gear. Or, the shaft itself could have hit the teeth when it fell inside. Remember, the Slider for 1st & 2nd serves as the big Reverse Gear. So, when it is "shifted" into 2nd, the Synchro Teeth of 1st gear are more exposed, Was the brass Synchronizer Ring damaged? Otherwise, I have no clue how those teeth were sheared off in just one area.

Well, the circumstances could have been worse.

That was one heck of a marathon turn-around. Congrats.
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'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.

[ERN Wah]

AndyBees, Yes the concave washer was found in the case. I have a picture of it but there was no damage to it. And no the brass synchronizer ring was not damaged at all. The 1st/2nd shift fork had some abnormal wear and was also replaced.

I would need to tear down 20 more of these to get my head wrapped around the complexity of these gears.

I just took the van around the block to test all gear and everything is working fine.

Now I can go on my trip as planned this weekend so long as nothing else major happens....

Best,

Ernie