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Dealing with old brake lines
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epowell
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:56 am    Post subject: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

I mangled one of the old brake lines leading right to the dr.side front caliper... so I traced it back to this t-junction. My plan is to un-do the line from this "T" - remove it - get a copy made at a local place - then install.

QUESTION:
How do I remove this line and be 100% sure I don't mess something up in the process! I can take a bit of time... It is now soaking in AFT, and I tapped lightly for a while on that nut... gently tried to un-do it turning CCW with an 11mm wrench, but it is stuck. It might not be too badly stuck but I am not going to reef on that thing...

I figure give it a couple of days with AFT/ACETONE --- give it a chance to loosen...

Is CCW the right way to loosen this?
Any other suggestions?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:11 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

I'm assuming you're using flare wrenches, anything else just strips the nut.

If flare doesn't get it off, try a small vice grip or pipe wrench. Most likely you'll need a new fitting, so cut the brake line, then put a deep wall socket on it.

Some will tell you use heat. Dangerous because fluid will ignite. Wear eye protection if you go that route.yes on ccw, righty tightly, lefty loosey....
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:42 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

Use your MAPP torch and heat it up.
Good flare wrench (brake pipe wrench) is a must at brake lines
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

ZsZ wrote:
Use your MAPP torch and heat it up.
Good flare wrench (brake pipe wrench) is a must at brake lines


x2 on torch & flare wrench.

I managed to keep the long hard lines plus the front short hard lines intact.

My rear short hard lines got mangled, but they came off. The Tee cleaned up nicely.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

To be specific you need an 11mm flare wrench, but even those sometimes fail to work when rust has eroded the fittings. Here in the states it's possible to buy various lengths of tubing with the correct fittings at NAPA and then bend them to suit with an inexpensive tubing bender.
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

if you are going to replace the lines (I'd highly suggest that)
if one is bad they are all bad

I cut the line close to the fitting then I can use a 6pt socket and another wrench on the body of the T fitting..
remove the T fitting altogether to make it easier
this is a must for removing the rubber lines.. I cut them close to the fitting and use a deep 6pt socket..
tap it on. and you may have to tap/drive the piece out of the socket..

since you are there and bleeding the system anyways. make it all new and only do it once, else you'll be back here again in 2-12months after a potentially fatal incident.
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

1. do not allow any oil, atf or such to get into the brake system. even trace amounts can ruin the brakes.

2. a flare nut wrench is often required to remove these fittings, this is a six point closed end wrench, with a slit cut in it to allow the pipe to pass thru so the wrench can be placed over the nut. this prevents the wrench from slipping and rounding the corners off the nut. see link........ http://www.sears.com/craftsman-5-pc-flare-nut-wren...lsrc=aw.ds

3. In your case you can use a standard six point closed end (box end) wrench becuase you can cut the pipe to allow the closed end wrench to slip onto the nut since you are not going to reuse that pipe, so if you do not have a flare nut wrench, cut the pipe and run a closed end six point wrench on the nut, that way it will fully grip and not slip.

4. heat on the tee fitting may really help loosen a stuck nut, a torch will work, try this after you have tried the flare nut or closed end wrench.

5. The threads are standard right hand thread, looking straight on at the nut, loosen counter clockwise, just like most all threads.

good luck
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epowell
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

Thanks everyone!!

YES, I can cut the pipe and put on a 6 point 11mm socket - THIS IS THE ANSWER! Bravo! ...if it doesn't work I heat it a bit.

Thanks for the heads up about not allowing AFT into the system Shocked

I do in fact have line (flare) wrenches, but sometimes they are hard to get onto the nut.

I look forward to replacing ALL of the brake lines because I assume they are original, however the PO was good about keeping lots of oil and grease on them to prevent rust therefore they are in good condition still >>> however in all of the wheel-well areas (front and back) where oil and grease has quickly been washed away from the lines, those short lines are all rusty and bad. Therefore I am now replacing the fronts >>> and after this big job, I will jack up the rear and deal with some issues back there, at which time I will replace the rear rusty lines and bleed the ENTIRE system.

Most likely replace all the brake lines within the next 2 years... right not, time is just too tight to do that, unfortunately.

THANKS!

edit: there is a shop here that can fab - up for me whatever lines I want, profi and cheap, and I can bend the lines myself.
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

NEW RUBBER BRAKE HOSES>>>>>>>>
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

Sometimes a bit of impact works better than a hard pull. In this case lightly striking the wrench with a hammer may initiate movement more easily than mere wrenching.

May have to repeat this many times - lots of small impacts are more effective than one great whacking blow.

Once it moves at all then you've won and can go from there.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

I would only add that a cheap (shitty) flare wrench is worse than a good open end wrench. Evil or Very Mad
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

Yeah, mine was cheap, and sadly, shitty. But in some situations it really does work.

- - -

So I was out there again, cut off the line, heated the fitting, more AFT, put on a 6p socket, and it is still frozen.
The main problem now is that accessibility is pathetic. Extremely difficult to get some space for leverage...
I'm not going to rush it - - - when I torque on it it also feels like putting stress on the "T", and can't figure out a way to "hold" the "T".
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

a cheap flare wrench is an "assembly only' wrench Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
NEW RUBBER BRAKE HOSES>>>>>>>>


absolutely right

but he is going to need to replace many other parts in the brake system too

BTW, penetrant often takes days to work not hours
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

ok kids time for another tip.
when you use 2 wrenches to remove a tight line/fitting.
note that they have an offset of (iirc) 15*
orient them so that to loosen the offset requires the wrenches to squeeze together and fit in the palm of your hand.
holding them steady give them a squeeze together nice and evenly.
it'll keep you from twisting the line/fitting and the wrenches off the faces.

installation is reverse of the same.. orient the wrenches so that a controlled squeeze will tighten and you'll minimize slippage and busted knuckles.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

OR:

Since you're going to replace all the hard lines anyway, might as well cut all 3
lines, unmount the fitting & work out the details on the bench...<shrug>

- Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

epowell wrote:

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I think what I am going to do tomorrow is shape a small piece of wood which will hold the "T" firmly to the frame using a wood clamp... then put a short cheater bar on my ratchet and gently get that nut off. I think if I can get that "T" very securely clamped to the frame, then with a 6p. socket and a lot of torque it MUST come off!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

OK, this might look 'involved' but I think I can do it quickly...

The problem is that torquing on the nut causes the T to ROTATE so therefore I need to provide support only in the direction that the torque will push it...
- 2 pieces of wood, 1 with a slop cut in it, clamped onto the frame, the other - just a 3mm shim wedged behind the other side of the T to minimize it twisting towards the frame.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

too hold the tee, remove its securing bolt, then move tee so you can fit an open end or even a cresent wrench across the tee. the wrench on the tee can then have force applied to it to counter the torque from the flare nut removal. thats how it should be done.

if however your replacingall the pipes, then simply cut the two other pipes near the tee, and remove the tee to your work bench vice and remkve the flare nuts

the tee should be such that when you remove its mounting bolt, it will expose flat surfaces for a large wrench to hold it. give that a go.


good luck
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

OK, but I am guessing that the nut holding on the T will be equally rusted and then also require something to hold the T as to not mangle the other 2 'still good' lines attached to it.

I am hoping now not to replace ALL lines for time reasons... if I had the time I'd do it - but they are still in reasonable condition - I've checked.
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