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Dealing with old brake lines
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tjet
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:27 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

Don't even mess with it. Cut the line upstream of it & run a new section. I had a similar issue with my Syncro. I cut the line at a good section, spliced in a new piece & fabricated new lines (with new T's & fittings).

I used NiCopp bulk line & a Ridgid 345 flare tool.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/nicopp-nicopp-n...16190029-P

https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/345-manual-flare-tool#

Use a dremel or hacksaw to cut the line. Never use a tubing cutter.
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epowell
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

Too late now, I cut the line too short out of the T.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:14 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

All those hard brake lines need to replaced as well as the T

Those safety critical parts are at endof life. There is nothing to save there.

Cut it off and replace.

Flares and sockets won't move those fasteners. By the time you remove the corroded metal you will be down to 9mm round size with no points for the wrench to grab

A really top shelf vice grip (tm) with a sharp teeth might get them
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epowell
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
All those hard brake lines need to replaced as well as the T

Those safety critical parts are at endof life. There is nothing to save there.

Cut it off and replace.

Flares and sockets won't move those fasteners. By the time you remove the corroded metal you will be down to 9mm round size with no points for the wrench to grab

A really top shelf vice grip (tm) with a sharp teeth might get them


...yeah! Not touched for 35 years!!! Shocked

I wonder how long it would take me to replace all? Probably one week.
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:53 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

my brother has done it in one day on the ground to 2 vans..
incl making the flares from a coil of tubing.
your milage may vary
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epowell
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
my brother has done it in one day on the ground to 2 vans..
incl making the flares from a coil of tubing.
your milage may vary


Maybe I will seriously consider it. I can get a place in town here to fab up all the lines - all I would need to do is:
1) remove the old (quick I guess, since it can be destructive > HOWEVER HOW LONG TO REMOVE THE LINE FROM THE MASTER CYLINDER?
2) bend up the new
3) install

...still think it would take about a week at my average speed > this is NOT a job you want to rush because the result could be worse than not doing it!
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epowell
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

Well I just started to think, the main concern I have now is to pass the Czech Govt tech Exam... so if I do brake lines I might not have time to replace the Turbo --- but I was thinking that from the point of view of a tech. control, brake lines will have a much higher priority over turbo/muffler...

...I think I will bite it and replace all the lines. Especially now that I have the fuel tank out.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

The new brake lines will go in a lot easier than taking the old ones out. Very Happy
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

and to note, that when making new lines.
we move the location of the T fitting in the rear away from the hidden spot by the coolant lines..
new lines have to connect and be leak & kink free
they do not have to be in the exact same location Wink

you will have a challenge on the main lines to the Master Cylinder.
I'm sure my brother made an inline (DIY) union splice
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
OK, but I am guessing that the nut holding on the T will be equally rusted and then also require something to hold the T as to not mangle the other 2 'still good' lines attached to it.

I am hoping now not to replace ALL lines for time reasons... if I had the time I'd do it - but they are still in reasonable condition - I've checked.


the bolt should pass thru a thru hole in the tee, no threads to sieze there. the bolt is threaded into the van. Id be very surprised if the bolt is stuck to the tee. go for it, remove the bolt, then you can place a big wrench on the tee, that is how it is supposed to be done, so do it!


good luck
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
...1) remove the old (quick I guess, since it can be destructive > HOWEVER HOW LONG TO REMOVE THE LINE FROM THE MASTER CYLINDER?


Possibly not long as it is very easy to get to (with the dash post lifted to one side) and lives in a fairly clean environment.

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epowell
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
The new brake lines will go in a lot easier than taking the old ones out. Very Happy


so in what areas could this job get "stuck" (timewise)?
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epowell
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

Just had an idea...

I could now replace the brake lines in the front half of the van... Then reinstall all the suspension, fuel tank, front wheels... then jack the front of the van down A LOT (but still keep it a little bit up). Or perhaps all the way down because I guess it is still possible to bleed the front brakes with the wheels ON and the van DOWN?

Then I could jack up the rear of the van and replace all the rear brake lines > and I have some other work to do on the rear brakes as well...

Then after that is done I could bleed the entire brake system.
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Merian
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

epowell wrote:

I am hoping now not to replace ALL lines for time reasons... if I had the time I'd do it - but they are still in reasonable condition - I've checked.


How did you check the interior of the brake lines???

Abscate told you what to do.

If you don't have time now, you may be spending LOTS of time in a hospital.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

Yes, you can do the F, then the R

Good move on doing them all - be sure you get quality lines; dunno what they have in Czech. Repub. but you can buy in Germany (where everything should be TUV)
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

So I went for a closer analysis today... in fact most of the lines look very solid except those near the wheel wells... but no matter, I have decided to replace all anyway.

I can re-use the "T"'s, no? ...or better to change?

From what I can see there is only going to be one really tough thing to remove and that is the rear "T"..... it is on there with a Philips screw!!! Which I am sure will be impossible to budge. But looking at this I am guessing I can just pry it off, and/or cut that screw from behind with a hacksaw blade. Any suggestions.

Otherwise the only things to remove are the front T, the P valve, and the lines from the Master Cylinder... other than I that I think I will just cut the lines and remove them.

I am going to label all lines before cutting off, so that way I can re-construct the system on the floor in order to get a facsimile to copy lengths and bends.


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dobryan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

If you can get a drill bit on that philips head you can drill it out with a bit that is slightly larger than the shaft of the screw. The head will then pop right off. Remove the T and then the screw shaft will likely unscrew using some pliers.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

If the "T" is not buggered somehow, you can clean and reuse it. Hard to tell from the picture, but they should be made of brass.

edit. They used the same "T" on Volkswagen beetles for years. So you don't need to look for one specific to the vanagon.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

Thanks guys... in fact this job doesn't seem any more difficult than removing and replacing the coolant pipes/hoses... Just rip it all out, and install with new Smile That's a great idea to use a drill with a philips bit on that screw! ...and I think the T's should be fine... and cheap if buying is needed.


Good news today > I inquired about the possibility of letting my technical permit expire and then going for a new permit a month or two later, and apparently this is absolutely no problem... so this means that in fact I really don't NEED to rush. I can take my time and ENJOY the ride and make sure I do a good job. Get the tech. permit later, then take a nice trip in July Smile Smile Smile ...otherwise I have been feeling so stressed that I'm actually getting physical ill from it Sad
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Dealing with old brake lines Reply with quote

Ed, you just purchased the tool you need for that phillips screw Smile Granted that you can get a straight shot at it, but this is where the hand impact comes in handy. Do get rid of that oil though. Anyway, here's what I like to do... First I take just the bit and pound it in the screw. Take it out, wire brush the rust out, and then take the just the bit again and tap it in there until you feel it's grabbing nicely. Then add the hand impact tool. Keep firm pressure on the impact tool, both down into the screw and the rotation in your hand. Start with light frequent taps and increase the blow of the hammer steadily. That screw should pop right out of there. If not, then proceed with drilling it out.

-Kevin
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