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jvan
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Joined: April 25, 2013
Posts: 162
Location: cascadia
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 Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:50 pm Post subject: Small Car front big brake components? |
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/archive/index.php/o-t--t-160055--.html
"The rotors Smallcar is using are the same 276mm rotors David Marshall showed in his writeup. They are from 1986-1991 Audi 5000/200 turbo cars. The twin piston calipers are also from the same application. They are commonly known in the VW/Audi circle as G60 calipers."
I am confused by what i have read, been told and google results.
I was told to use for the front, 1998 passat rootrs. Purchased and as far as i can tell they are a replica of the current ones i have.
However, for the caliper, bracket and guide pins i was told to use years and make, 1990-1994 audii v8 quattro. I do not see guide pins or bracket results that match what i have...and at car quest they pulled up entirely different guide pins etc as well.
Again this is for the front.
Mine below. (And i do have g60 calipers. I believe they are ok but for reference the compatible g60 calipers for the front big break kit are only found on "1986-1991 Audi 5000/200 turbo cars" or..?
(yes that guide pin is welded. it was frozen. broke it off attempting to turn and had welded back. figured if it was frozen before and not causing massive breaking problems why not...but i ended cutting it back off because i dont know what i am doing. Vans currently sitting with one guide pin in. lol. runs good though. 
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Pcforno
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Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 575
Location: Santa Fe, nm
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Small Car front big brake components? |
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Yes you are right and the other information is incorrect. Here is the complete listing for SC conversion parts. These are correct as I have recently replaced all these conponents
Front brakes: 94 Audi v8 Quattro Girling caliper with 98 Passat rotors
Rear brake:1990-1994 Audi v8 caliper with 91 Audi 200 Quattro 20v rotor with 1970 beetle/super beetle flex hose |
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9935
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:16 am Post subject: Re: Small Car front big brake components? |
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Those G60 dual piston calipers were used on various VW/Audi vehicles.
Both 5000/200 turbo cars and later V8 cars had them, but not always.
The parts books are confusing because the same year/model often came with more than one brake setup but the book may only show one.
It's an imperfect world.
Mark |
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Pcforno
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Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 575
Location: Santa Fe, nm
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:21 am Post subject: Re: Small Car front big brake components? |
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| Yes the calipers came from multiple vehicles. What's confusing is that the rotors on the front and rear conversions are not from the same model as the calipers. Small car did this to get you the biggest rotors possible. Use what I posted and you'll be fine 😀 |
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jvan
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Joined: April 25, 2013
Posts: 162
Location: cascadia
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Small Car front big brake components? |
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| Pcforno wrote: |
Yes you are right and the other information is incorrect. Here is the complete listing for SC conversion parts. These are correct as I have recently replaced all these conponents
Front brakes: 94 Audi v8 Quattro Girling caliper with 98 Passat rotors
Rear brake:1990-1994 Audi v8 caliper with 91 Audi 200 Quattro 20v rotor with 1970 beetle/super beetle flex hose |
thanks for the info. i do see what i need, it think =) but just bracket and guide pins?...i dont see. I see results of pins that look spot on but then there are also results of threaded shorter guide pins. Below are the correct g60 calipers with brakets?
http://www.autozone.com/brakes-and-traction-contro..._2362_3008
though this also comes up. thoughts? would work?
http://www.autozone.com/brakes-and-traction-contro..._5913_1238
also, when i search 1994 Audi v8 brake pads i get results of a more square pad and then pads that look like mine except with the brake sensor cable and on some, additional hardware such as shims and what appears to be more hardware built into one side of the set of pads..?
currently my front pads are actually about %70. But not wearing evenly. Would be a bad idea to continue to use those on new rotors? Or would eventually wear down evenly assuming new rotors are not warped?
Also, is rebuilding a caliper just a matter of removing the piston, cleaning and re-greasing?
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jvan
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Joined: April 25, 2013
Posts: 162
Location: cascadia
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Small Car front big brake components? |
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Acquired the pads and full caliper housing. One pad of each set came with a bracket deal on the back held on by two allen bolts. Easy to remove and i noticed my old pads have holes where i assume brackets previously were. Also, came with sensors. Clipped off.
However,
The caliper bracket holes have to be bored out. Pretty straight forward..? I would think so.
I had a machinist do this, directly center into the holes to match the diameter of the olds ones, but they are skewed. Picture below for reference. While secured with one bolt and nut, the rotor still spins freely (another thing in question below regarding the rotor). But the second bolt needs -2-3mm of extra space. Thoughts? Can i just bore out that "little" bit of extra space needed, be left with extra, but bolt it all down just fine?
The new brackets are off new-rebuilt g60 1994 audii v8 calipers. They look exactly the same minus a different printed number on the brackets. The holes on the older bracket do appear to be "off center" a tiny bit and there what'd id say a minuscule amount of play prior to tightening down.
Another issue regarding the new rotors.
I am having a very difficult time pushing the new rotors fully on. All measurements as far as i can tell match up.
1998 passatt rotors. They press around and onto the hub, but only about %90 in.
The old ones do catch a bit as you push on if you are not pushing straight, but they sit flush to the hub and all in all go on easily.
What am i missing with the new ones? Wrong year or have to hammer on and/or grease them up and really push? Pictures below for depth reference.
new rotors
old rotors
thanks in advance for your feedback. =)
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Pcforno
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Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 575
Location: Santa Fe, nm
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:19 am Post subject: Re: Small Car front big brake components? |
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| Yup the calipers have to be bored out. When you get them from SC they are already done for you. What's catching on the rotor when you put them on? They should slide on freely |
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Sodo
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Posts: 9609
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Small Car front big brake components? |
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| jvan wrote: |
| (yes that guide pin is welded. it was frozen. broke it off attempting to turn and had welded back. figured if it was frozen before and not causing massive breaking problems why not..... |
Calipers must float freely on the guide pins to wear evenly. Thats how they automatically center on the disc. If they bind up you will get uneven brake pad wear. And reduced braking performance too.
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Christopher Schimke
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:27 am Post subject: Re: Small Car front big brake components? |
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| Quote: |
The caliper bracket holes have to be bored out. Pretty straight forward..? I would think so.
I had a machinist do this, directly center into the holes to match the diameter of the olds ones, but they are skewed. |
If I understand correctly, you simply had the machinist drill the existing holes in the Audi caliper carriers to a larger diameter, but you did not have him change the center to center dimension. Is this correct?
The dimension between hole center to hole center is different for the Audi caliper carrier than it is for the caliper mounting holes in the Vanagon knuckle. This means that you/the machinist should have opened up the holes in the Audi caliper carriers on a new hole center to center dimension that matches the Vanagon knuckle. In other words, the new hole diameter is drill offset to the existing holes to create a new center to center dimension that matches the Vanagon caliper mounting hole center to center dimension.
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jvan
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Joined: April 25, 2013
Posts: 162
Location: cascadia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Small Car front big brake components? |
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| Pcforno wrote: |
| ...What's catching on the rotor when you put them on? They should slide on freely. |
I am not sure. The new rotors fit around the hub as easily as the old ones but will just not press on all the way. I would say about %90.
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jvan
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Joined: April 25, 2013
Posts: 162
Location: cascadia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Small Car front big brake components? |
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| Sodo wrote: |
| Calipers must float freely on the guide pins to wear evenly. Thats how they automatically center on the disc. If they bind up you will get uneven brake pad wear. And reduced braking performance too. |
Thanks for the input I figured assuming it had been stuck before, for the short while, to drive ~1 mile, weld it back on in the same position it was. However, i ended up cutting it off anyways because i thought those had to be removed to put the caliper back on..Wrong. =)
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jvan
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Location: cascadia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Small Car front big brake components? |
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| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
If I understand correctly, you simply had the machinist drill the existing holes in the Audi caliper carriers to a larger diameter, but you did not have him change the center to center dimension. Is this correct?
The dimension between hole center to hole center is different for the Audi caliper carrier than it is for the caliper mounting holes in the Vanagon knuckle. This means that you/the machinist should have opened up the holes in the Audi caliper carriers on a new hole center to center dimension that matches the Vanagon knuckle. In other words, the new hole diameter is drill offset to the existing holes to create a new center to center dimension that matches the Vanagon caliper mounting hole center to center dimension. |
Correct. thanks for the reply.
Assuming i bore out a little extra space on the lower hole...with then that extra free space is this just a bad idea or passable?
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jvan
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Location: cascadia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Small Car front big brake components? |
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Its come to my understanding that some brand of rotors simply do not fit all the way on. Some taper in diameter ever so slightly not allowing a flush fit. FYI.
I do not know what brands fit though. Anyone?
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termuehlen 
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Small Car front big brake components? |
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I installed Zimmermann discs a little over 2 years ago now. Part number:
8E0-615-301-C-M359
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pbrown
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Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Small Car front big brake components? |
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| termuehlen wrote: |
I installed Zimmermann discs a little over 2 years ago now. Part number:
8E0-615-301-C-M359 |
Is this part number for the the 288mm rotor?
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termuehlen
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Small Car front big brake components? |
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That is a part number for a 1998 VW Passat. I think the actual OD is 282mm.
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jvan
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termuehlen
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Pcforno
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jvan
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Location: cascadia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Small Car front big brake components? |
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I wanna say safe to assume the A vs C is the same since they are listed on the same parts page...?
here are again the links i originally intended to share. After doing a preview if the message it appears the links do work, but they are condensed. On your end that may be the reason why they may not work again...i dunno. But i included the "other" part number which again, were found using the cross reference number.
auto zone part number 34159
http://www.autozone.com/brakes-and-traction-contro...8E0615301A
oreillys part number 96781RGS
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BBR2/9678...8e0615301a
i may order from the link you provided but, if the auto zone or oreillys work i would prefer to go that route as i can likely get same day tomorrow with the option to easily return if need be.
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