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ragnarhairybreeks Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2009 Posts: 1888 Location: Sidney B.C. Canada
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:31 am Post subject: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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Hi,
I can't be the first one that has done this, maybe it's mentioned elsewhere here?
Anyway, finally ditched the annoying "broken leg" support strut on the kitchen sink lid and replaced with a small gas charged strut. I think it's a better way, the strut holds the lid up securely and in the closed position there is enough over centre action to hold the lid down a bit.
My only reservation is that the original strut screw holes couldn't be re used.
More info on my blog here, https://shufti.blog/
Cheers
Alistair _________________ '86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9775 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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Very nice indeed.
I had pondered using a flexing knee support as I have one on another, similar, application:
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atomatom Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2012 Posts: 1867 Location: in an 84 Westy or Bowen Island, BC
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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very nice. this has been on my list for a while. my current solution is a bit of rope with a loop to hold it open.
i guess a shorter strut might allow hole re-use. my main issue was where to find the strut. i knew about the later westy's struts, but no mounting gear. http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?id=3271 _________________ 84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada. |
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ragnarhairybreeks Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2009 Posts: 1888 Location: Sidney B.C. Canada
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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Shorter strut might work, but at a glance, using the stock mounting holes makes the compressed and extended length required challenging.
I bought the gas struts pretty well on a flutter. Wasn't expecting it to work quite as well as it turned out. The over centre down force when lid closed was a bonus.
Alistair _________________ '86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com |
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atomatom Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2012 Posts: 1867 Location: in an 84 Westy or Bowen Island, BC
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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did you just guess on the power of the strut? would you go up or down in Nm?
btw, it looks like you linked to the 4 pack on your blog. you can have just one mailed for $5.
or are you going to add them to the side cupboards as well? that would be useful. i use the curtain line to hold them up, but room for improvement. similar to this: http://campwestfalia.com/cabinet-lid-support/ _________________ 84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada. |
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MsTaboo Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006 Posts: 4065 Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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Smacking good idea. Does it help with the rattle? Like you, I hate to drill new holes if avoidable but this looks worth doing. _________________ Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
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ragnarhairybreeks Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2009 Posts: 1888 Location: Sidney B.C. Canada
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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I haven't had them on long enough to determine if it reduces rattling. It might, but I've also added some foam under the edge of the lid to press against the stove top.
I sure hope it helps, even with the foam and with dish clothes etc between the stove grate and the drop down drain tray , I get rattles on rough roads.
Alistair _________________ '86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com |
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ragnarhairybreeks Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2009 Posts: 1888 Location: Sidney B.C. Canada
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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I guessed about the strength. 100 N is about 22.5 lbf. That seems like too much but what with the lever arm of the lid on the strut placement it turned out to be fine.
Thought about the side cupboards. I too use the curtain line to hold them up. I think you'd have to make a right angle bracket just inside the cupboard opening to mount the strut. Not sure though.
Alistair
atomatom wrote: |
did you just guess on the power of the strut? would you go up or down in Nm?
btw, it looks like you linked to the 4 pack on your blog. you can have just one mailed for $5.
or are you going to add them to the side cupboards as well? that would be useful. i use the curtain line to hold them up, but room for improvement. similar to this: http://campwestfalia.com/cabinet-lid-support/ |
_________________ '86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com |
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kourt Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2013 Posts: 1922 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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Unfortunately this mod won't work on a newer Westy with a gray galley and a Shurflo faucet. There is just not enough room for everything. I love the idea of some sort of force holding the top down, which I hope will suppress rattles in the galley. I hope to accomplish something with rare earth magnets. More later.
kourt |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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There are two different mounting set ups for the stove top lid.
Early & late both NLA from VW.
The pieces of wood added to the inside of the early cabinet edge is kinda "iffy" at best, the pivot point on the bottom is also the mounting point.
A guy with use would have to be oversizing the hole eventually, probably wind up going all the way through the front board.
Alistair ,
Good call on the mini gas cylinder placement.
However, there always going to be some sort of slight up pressure on the lid, the weight of it alone will not keep it banging on the top of the cabinet as you go down the road.
That would be a pain in short order.
Some sort of latch, catch, hasp, anything to hold it tight.
No banging.
You're going to have to work on that a little.
I have a few late model stock OE lid props still available.
When these are gone, that's all here in the USA. _________________ T.K. |
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ragnarhairybreeks Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2009 Posts: 1888 Location: Sidney B.C. Canada
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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Terry Kay wrote: |
There are two different mounting set ups for the stove top lid.
Early & late both NLA from VW.
The pieces of wood added to the inside of the early cabinet edge is kinda "iffy" at best, the pivot point on the bottom is also the mounting point.
A guy with use would have to be oversizing the hole eventually, probably wind up going all the way through the front board.
Alistair ,
Good call on the mini gas cylinder placement.
However, there always going to be some sort of slight up pressure on the lid, the weight of it alone will not keep it banging on the top of the cabinet as you go down the road.
That would be a pain in short order.
Some sort of latch, catch, hasp, anything to hold it tight.
No banging.
You're going to have to work on that a little.
I have a few late model stock OE lid props still available.
When these are gone, that's all here in the USA. |
Terry,
I did not expect the gas strut to exert any down force at all when the lid was closed. I do use the stock latch, but as it turned out, how I mounted the strut attachment ended up with an " over the centre" action that does apply down force on the closed lid. It's a noticeable amount but I'm not saying it would keep the lid closed tight without the stock latch.
Was just one of those fortunate things
Cheers
Alistair _________________ '86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com |
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plummerdesign Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2010 Posts: 539 Location: PNW
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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Alistair,
You have done the very project I have been pondering for many years! Wonderful work!
There are now (2) of these struts and associated mounting parts here for me to install in both campers. Your video is great, the pictures super helpful. If time allows, might you be coerced into sharing some hole drilling measurements?
Super cool mod!
Jeffery _________________ It is old and green and it makes me grin.
1984 Westfalia 1.9 |
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ragnarhairybreeks Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2009 Posts: 1888 Location: Sidney B.C. Canada
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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Jeffrey,
I'll grab some measurements today.
Alistair _________________ '86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com |
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ragnarhairybreeks Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2009 Posts: 1888 Location: Sidney B.C. Canada
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davevickery Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005 Posts: 2887 Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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I also added a strut similar to what Alistair did above. I just looked on Amazon for short struts with the right type of mounts. I tried to reuse the holes on the sink side and they are not in the right place so I decided to mount it on the other side. I had previously removed the rattly drain tray otherwise this placement might not work.
I think I will like it. It looks more modern and it might reduce some rattling now that the floppy lift arm is gone and there is bit of a pull on the lid in the closed position.
Link
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9517 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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Ahh, moved to the rear gets it away from the faucet. And the eye doesn't linger on old screwholes. Realistically you can plug the old holes with tiny screws. Can't imagine burner heat on that gas cylinder is a problem when only one inch farther is "combustibles".
I have to do this. But now we have to decide "front or rear." _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9517 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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I saw some pics of guys in Europe installing gas springs to their Westfalia stove lid on Facebook.
Their stove cabinet was different from mine & easier to fit the gas spring kits.
Then had a moment where synapses were re-inspired to fire and thus 'remembered' that I'd seen it on
some obscure blog from back in 2017 by some guy marooned on an island out in the North Pacific..........
Pic ^^^above^^^ from: (SHOOFTIE) Vanagon – kitchen unit lid strut support
Notice the Shooftie feller forgot to disable the latch.
===== ....ahem (cough)...... OK onward to a ...hoh-hoh-haaaaack....modern Westy ======
1990 westfalia stove lid is different than the 1988 Shooftie kitchen.
(I don't know what year it changed)
This pic shows how the gas spring bracket holes would be in the corner of the ledge.
I saw pics where a Portland feller put the gas spring on the outside.
With the bracket screwed onto the rubber edge moulding
He used 2.5 inch long screws, down thru the molding T, (deep into the plywood).
It looked like a fairly easy install.
But I wanted my spring to be on the inside, and up on the little ledge, kinda OEM-ish.
AND I wanted the mount to be BELOW the lid hinge pivot; for hold-down force.
It was a fight but I eventually won.
I built my own mount of stainless steel.
I'm not proud of how many hours it took.
But it's hidden inside - the way I want it.
I started by fussing with the mount.
Bent the bracket to fit on the ledge, with the screw holes away from the corner..
Shortened the stalk & re-peened it back on.
Then got concerned the molestation would crack the nickel plating.
Could bleed rust onto my SS sink.
Heck with it.
Built a Stainless steel mount.
I'm all quarantined here, what else can I do?
I ground a SS hex screw into a ball (of sorts) and welded it onto an SS bracket.
I riveted it on with stainless steel pop-rivets for that vaulted OEM-ish appearance.
A little box of SS rivets cost $5.50, about as much as a gas strut kit.
Had to spacer the rivet-setter tool upward with washers to get in there.
Here's the dimensions that I used for the 1990 (?) Westfalia.
Note they all are from the lid pivot/hinge bolt.
Note the upper ball is about 1/2 inch below the hinge pivot so when closed, the gas spring will be pushing the lid down.
In gearboy speak the hold-down force is 22.5 lbs x (.5/12.5) = 0.9 lbs on the stove lid.
With the idea that there's less chance of rattle.
A chord of the mount circle was cut off, just enough remaining for the countersunk screws.
m4x10mm countersunk flat head stainless screws were used from the outside.
It sure works well. It holds the lid down with a little pressure.
And the strut lifts the lid when you get past about 4 inches.
I ordered the gas spring on eBay; 2 kits for $12.
They're 100kn. 80kn would be plenty.
Gas Strut Kitchen Cabinet Cupboard Door Hinges Blanket Toy Box Lid Gas Stay100Nm
I also disabled the main latch so now I can just lift the cover with one hand from anywhere.
And I can close it from the driver's seat if I forget, and I drive off. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9517 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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Mine bangs against the wall when it opens.
The 100N strut takes about 22lbs to start, then 18 lbs to keep moving.
It takes 4.65 lbs to pull the lid closed (from open).
5 pounds is not a problem.....
But it just "seems" like the lid should close easier, like it's not designed right.
But of course moving the mount location closer to the hinge would do the same thing. But I ain't re-drillin'.
I've already drilled mine so I have to downsize my strut to 60kN.
And soft close would be more 'elegant' in design too.
So if you bought the 100N strut, don't use the 3 1/2 inches; use about 60% of that (=2.1 inches to the hinge).
......I think......give me a few days to test the numbers.
I ordered this "soft close" 60N strut, should be here Apr 3rd.
FURNICA 2X Soft Close Telescopic Spring Gas Strut (60N - 13LB) _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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ragnarhairybreeks Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2009 Posts: 1888 Location: Sidney B.C. Canada
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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Tom,
You’ve done a bang up job there. Pun intended. For whatever reason my lid doesn’t bang. Dumb luck on strut placement I guess.
The brackets impressive.
Isn’t it nice to one hand open and close the lid? I’ll have to look at mine again, can’t recall what if anything I did to stock latch.
Cheers
Alistair _________________ '86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com |
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ledogboy Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005 Posts: 577 Location: Scappoose, OR / Oakland, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: Westy kitchen lid gas strut |
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Thanks to Sodo, for adding to this thread (which I had bookmarked long ago) and for linking to the furnica struts!
I did this mod on the van tonight, but followed Davevickery’s lead and removed the dish drain so I could install the strut on the left side. Using that spot, I was in and out in 10 minutes and the strut works beautifully- I am so glad to be rid of the rickety original! I think I will be happier not having the dish drain rattling down the highway, but I’m keeping all the bits, in case I miss it. Either way, this is one sweet mod! _________________ 1986 Westy Weekender
Now a full camper
1.8t Syncro conversion
Some people call him Maurice... |
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