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Message |
ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6348
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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 Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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| Energy Concepts wrote: |
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
Sick website 
I'm gonna call them for the black plastic washer 
As for your pump, I don't have experience in opening up many transmissions so I don't know if there were different size pumps. What doesn't match for your bushing? ID or OD?
Aloha!
Edit: damn it, they don't take any modern payments. What is this company?? |
Thanks Alika,,, I think I've got the pump bushings figured out.
I was looking at the Body of the pump,
thinking that smooth shiny section on the bottom was the Bush ! 
I see now that ( Inside ) the Gear is where the larger bush go's 
And, the split smaller bushing is for the top of the pump.
just a note; I had problems with my visa when I was trying to get
in on the special pricing for the valve body.
Turns out that Pay Pal worked though.
Yeah, I don't know about ordering from those guys?
I only posted their site for the info on the two types of pumps.
I ordered the plastic trust washers from the ECS place.
Hope they have them available!
Thanks!
John C... |
Great you sorted it outs!
Lemme know for ECS, really curious about that 
For hte other guy, I called. Super old school, gotta double check his inventory and calling me back, then I gotta do a money order. He has e black washers so I might go with better used ones than white ones that become brittle.
I'm trying to have them done in brass but they won't cut a groove in it....I might have to do it myself in this case. Trying to get this shit back together this week end, I highly doubt it even though I'm trying hard to source stuff and account for shipping times 
_________________
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Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
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Energy Concepts
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 352
Location: Yacolt, WA
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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>>>>I ordered the plastic trust washers from the ECS place.
Hope they have them available!
John C...
>>>Great you sorted it out!
Lemme know for ECS, really curious about that
I ordered 4ea. If they arrive,
I'll be happy to mail a couple of them over to you !
May save wait time. 
BTW; If They're in the PDX Area,
I'll be happy to run down there for you !!!
I've got the oil pump assy & the 1st.reverse apply shell assy installed.
Now this AM, I'm tackling the Bushing in the Direct/Reverse clutch.
There is No way to get behind that bushing for a puller,
so not sure how to approach this bushing
without making a mess of ID area.
Anyone know?
I guess just a smaller / sharper flat tip & hammer,
to get it started then move on to something brass & less sharp ?
I'll Also check FLAPS to see if they have some kind of a puller this dimension.
fun...fun...fun...
(not a mechanic,,, I only play one out in my shop !!! 
Last edited by Energy Concepts on Wed May 03, 2017 12:49 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6348
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:32 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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| Energy Concepts wrote: |
>>>>I ordered the plastic trust washers from the ECS place.
Hope they have them available!
John C...
>>>Great you sorted it out!
Lemme know for ECS, really curious about that
I ordered 4ea. If they arrive,
I'll be happy to mail a couple of them over to you !
May save wait time.
I've got the oil pump assy & the 1st.reverse apply shell assy installed.
Now this AM, I'm tackling the Bushing in the Direct/Reverse clutch.
There is No way to get behind that bushing for a puller,
so not sure how to approach this bushing
without making a mess of ID area.
Anyone know?
I guess just a smaller / sharper flat tip & hammer,
to get it started then move on to something brass & less sharp ?
fun...fun...fun...
(not a mechanic,,, I only play one out in my shop !!! |
Cool
Auto Atlanta is shipping 6 for me tomorrow, I don't know why they're waiting for so long, the rest comes from Germany.
I'm getting a black one from Mmerlinn, used. 10 bucks a pop I have to do a Walmart to Walmart money transfer, talk about a pita for paying this guy! Anybody in Oregon in Portland or Rainier to get me the washer?
Very nice guy over the phone though, no BS.
For your bushing, mine got replaced at some point before, and they used a screwdriver, I can tell it left a mark in the steel, so I reused that same notch to do the same way and not add further damage to the bore. Another way would be to heat up the drum and hit it against a piece of wood, but I'm not sure if that would warp the drum, plus it's a crazy mass to heat up ....
_________________
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Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
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Energy Concepts
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 352
Location: Yacolt, WA
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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I used a little grinder & it seems to have worked well.
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6348
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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I looked at the thread earlier when I got a notification at work, it doesn't say you edited it, but I could have sworm you were saying something different with a Youtube video? I wanna see it
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Energy Concepts
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 352
Location: Yacolt, WA
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
| I looked at the thread earlier when I got a notification at work, it doesn't say you edited it, but I could have sworm you were saying something different with a Youtube video? I wanna see it |
Pressure Plate #
010-323-253 B
I'm going to try a transmission supply shop
in Portland.
If not, Jim Ellis it is !
ECS is telling me the Plastic thrust washers are delayed
until May 11th
We'll see if they can find them ?
best,
John C...[/quote]
I probably got the last ones from Porsche in the USA....
If you're stuck, lemme know, I'll ship you some until you get yours
I'm also looking into having better ones custom made, I opened a thread about it this morning [/quote]
>>>I'm also looking into having better ones custom made, I opened a thread about it this morning.
Great! Mine are yellowing quite badly and I really wish
I had new more pliable one's to install
I'm getting tired of pulling that transmission
out of the van every 3 month ! 
>>>If you're stuck, lemme know, I'll ship you some until you get yours Wink
Thanks & very nice !
Hopefully the one's I ordered from ECS ( and they are problably getting them from Germany ) will arrive about the same time as my Pressure plate: 010-323-253-B.
I used a (used steel ) stacked up with my OE Pressure Plate
to bring me up to Spec's last time!
Funny thing, It worked !
My Valve Body plate looked a lot like the one you pictured
so I'm thinking the VB was my biggest problem
and why I ventured into this steep (for me) rebuilding learning curve!
main problem was a loud clunk going into reverse.
Then,,, after my first attempt at rebuilding
I had a hesitation before it would start to move the van. (both directions)
I think we're both zeroing in on it though
and I'm absolutely Positive We Will Prevail !!!
thanks!
John C...
Last edited by Energy Concepts on Thu May 11, 2017 6:11 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Energy Concepts
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 352
Location: Yacolt, WA
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 6:33 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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[quote="ALIKA T3"]
| Energy Concepts wrote: |
Hi Alika,
Sorry, not thrust plate but
Pressure Plate #
010-323-253 B
What's wrong with yours? If it is smooth with no scratches you can reuse it. That's the one that's flat on one side and rounded on the other right? |
On the Forward Clutch assembly,
the bottom plate, which is tapered on the bottom
is called the Trust Plate; Page 38.17 bentley.
The Pressure plate is on top of the assembly
And is the Pressure Plate 010-323-253-B
It comes in 5 different thicknesses.
see page 38.18 Fig.2
It needs to have between .020 / .035 play,
after the forward clutch is completely assembled.
Mine had .090 Play!
And I needed a Pressure plate that is Thicker ( the "B" Size
Both the Direct/Reverse Clutch
And the
Forward Clutch need to be within Specs' !
The Forward Clutch "Play" is adjusted with different sized Pressure Plate' A-D
and the D/R clutch is adjusted with the Cir Clip. (page 38.21 Fig 6
JC... |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6348
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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On my Bentley, the D/R clutch play is on 38.19 ??
Anyway,
I didn't get my thrust washers on time so I stopped by the friendly local VW mechanic to chat stories yesterday and he had the washers in stock, so I borrowed 2 in order to close the tranny this week end.
I ordered a new brake band just in case, it looks like the one I got got the pins tightened too hard on them, I screwed it, literally 
I adjusted the pin by feel while rotating the D/R drum , that should do for now....
Cheers!
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Energy Concepts
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 352
Location: Yacolt, WA
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
I ordered a new brake band just in case, it looks like the one I got got the pins tightened too hard on them, I screwed it, literally
I adjusted the pin by feel while rotating the D/R drum , that should do for now....
Cheers! |
Yikes ! Can't figure how that went so deep ? |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6348
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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| Energy Concepts wrote: |
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
I ordered a new brake band just in case, it looks like the one I got got the pins tightened too hard on them, I screwed it, literally
I adjusted the pin by feel while rotating the D/R drum , that should do for now....
Cheers! |
Yikes ! Can't figure how that went so deep ? |
Prolly the monkey behind the torque wrench, but I never reached the said torque ....
I measured the depth of the pump shaft when it's at home , from the oil cooler port : 26mm from the outer edge of the case to the tip of the pump shaft. This was just in case the assembly was going wrong. The pump shaft self aligns on the torque converter splines and on the pump splines, so this was of no concern but I was ready to battle
Ok, time to mate!! Tee shirt rag courtesy of Planned Parenthood that I support 
And it was sooo much easier to mate the differential with the automatic section on the van rather than the whole thing on the floor then mount the whole heavy unit!
To line up the internal splines, I spun with a screw driver the cover plate or whatever its name is, the first one with splines when you disassemble the guts.
Energy concepts, I checked the end play with a feeler gauge at the lowest part of the wavy circlip for the forward clutch, I have about 1mm, which is more than the 0.5 to 0.9mm play the manual calls for.
I had to put it back together either way.... and see, it probably is not ideal for the clutch packs to engage with no slippage.
I don't understand how everything works in there. I still have the same issue, cannot drive in D, unless I get rolling first, starting on position 1.
If I don't have enough speed and it kicks down, it spins freely with no transmission movement.
I don't understand the role played by the brake band and when it occurs. I don't understand the role of the different clutches and gears and it what order they work when I drive starting on D or I drive starting on 1, it should be the same, no? D goes from 1-2-3, when shifter is on 1, it stays at 1 because it is locked there by the shifter ( and valve body), so why can't I get this thing moving in D from a stop?
I prolly need adjusting the brake band, but I don't understand its function, besides basically stopping the D/R drum from spinning, at some point....
Pulling my hair with this damn tranny!
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Energy Concepts
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 352
Location: Yacolt, WA
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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As far as my grasp on these things,
I'm in the same boat as you Alika !!!
All I'm aiming for is to be inside the tolerances ...
That said, Before, when I had the forward clutch tolerances
way loose, I was having similar starting problems.?
I would have to rev up the engine a bit
and then the car would begin to move.
Sometimes it would want to "jump" at start ...
I'm thinking that the Forward Clutch tolerance is going to matter.
I had to go with the "B" thickness pressure plate.
And, it's over a week out. Germany I'm sure.
Still the Valve Body Plate couldn't be helping in my case either.
Sorry to hear you're still having troubles.
I'm thinking the correct pressure plate thickness
may be the culprit !
JC...
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
On my Bentley, the D/R clutch play is on 38.19 ??
Cheers! |
Hi Alika,
Ya, There is "note" of different thicknesses of the Cir-Clip
on page 38.19 but it "references" to page 38.21 Fig. 6.
for the actual adjustment, tolerances and part #'s
best,
JC... |
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Energy Concepts
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 352
Location: Yacolt, WA
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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As far as my grasp on these things,
I'm in the same boat as you Alika !!!
All I'm aiming for is to be inside the tolerances ...
That said, Before, when I had the forward clutch tolerances
way loose, I was having similar starting problems.?
I would have to rev up the engine a bit
and then the car would begin to move.
Sometimes it would want to "jump" at start ...
So, I'm thinking that the Forward Clutch tolerance is going to matter.
I had to go with the "B" thickness pressure plate.
And, it's over a week out. Germany I'm sure.
Still the Valve Body Plate couldn't be helping in my case either.
Sorry to hear you're still having troubles.
I'm thinking the correct pressure plate thickness
may be the culprit !
JC...
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
On my Bentley, the D/R clutch play is on 38.19 ??
Cheers! |
Hi Alika,
Ya, There is "note" of different thicknesses of the Pressure plate
on page 38.17 but it "references" to page 38.18 Fig. 6.
for the actual adjustment, tolerances and part #'s
best,
JC...
Last edited by Energy Concepts on Mon May 08, 2017 8:54 am; edited 2 times in total |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6348
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:33 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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Yeah, that adventure sucks!
I wish I understood better how all works in there, I could address the issue.
I'm gonna go to the local VW mechanic, he has loads of auto tranny parts laying on the floor, I'm gonna see if I can find a forward clutch pressure plate thicker than the 6.4mm model I have.
We must have different versions of the Bentley, I meant 38.16 for the D/R clutch play, not 38.19
Nowhere I have figure 6
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6348
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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So today I stopped by the old VW mechanic, he has dozens of automatic transmissions just laying open on the floor, on shelves, everywhere!
I took apart about 15 or so forward clutches and D/R clutches to find the correct pressure plate I need to lower my end play on the forward clutch.
Virtually all transmissions have the 010323253 pressure plate measuring 6.2 ish ( from 6.2 to 6.25, some fetching to 6.28 ).
I found 2 plates at 6.55 and 6.60 mm thick. None of these numbers match the chart. And that's not wear, they cannot be worn at the teeth, I would have seen a step if they were really worn.
I bought the 2 thicker ones I found and we shall see if I open the transmission again.
He was also working on a transmission as I showed up, the pressure plate on the forward clutch was 6.68 mm thick.
I also received the black thrust washer 010323161A
I also found a thrust washer on the pile of stuff he had made out of aluminum bronzed. It is from an older 003 automatic transmission. ( 003323161 ) NLA and superseded by the newer plastic thrust washer.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Energy Concepts
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 352
Location: Yacolt, WA
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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[quote="ALIKA T3"]So today I stopped by the old VW mechanic, he has dozens of automatic transmissions just laying open on the floor, on shelves, everywhere!
I took apart about 15 or so forward clutches and D/R clutches to find the correct pressure plate I need to lower my end play on the forward clutch.
Virtually all transmissions have the 010323253 pressure plate measuring 6.2 ish ( from 6.2 to 6.25, some fetching to 6.28 ).
I found 2 plates at 6.55 and 6.60 mm thick. None of these numbers match the chart. And that's not wear, they cannot be worn at the teeth, I would have seen a step if they were really worn.
I bought the 2 thicker ones I found and we shall see if I open the transmission again.
He was also working on a transmission as I showed up, the pressure plate on the forward clutch was 6.68 mm thick.
Hi Alika,
As Emerson Lake & Palmer would say "Oh what a lucky man You are" !
I just received notice from ECS that my order for 010-323-253-B
has been cancelled NLA !
Dead in the water until I find one !
Wishin' someone would start churnin' these puppy's out !!!
Now what? may have to get the mig out !!! (kidding)
( welders,,, the magical Machinist's helpers !!!
JC...
Last edited by Energy Concepts on Tue May 09, 2017 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Energy Concepts
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 352
Location: Yacolt, WA
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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[quote="ALIKA T3"]So today I stopped by the old VW mechanic, he has dozens of automatic transmissions just laying open on the floor, on shelves, everywhere!
I took apart about 15 or so forward clutches and D/R clutches to find the correct pressure plate I need to lower my end play on the forward clutch.
Virtually all transmissions have the 010323253 pressure plate measuring 6.2 ish ( from 6.2 to 6.25, some fetching to 6.28 ).
I found 2 plates at 6.55 and 6.60 mm thick. None of these numbers match the chart. And that's not wear, they cannot be worn at the teeth, I would have seen a step if they were really worn.
I bought the 2 thicker ones I found and we shall see if I open the transmission again.
He was also working on a transmission as I showed up, the pressure plate on the forward clutch was 6.68 mm thick.
Hi Alika,
As Emerson Lake & Palmer would say "Oh what a lucky man You are" !
I just received notice from ECS that my order for 010-323-253-B
has been cancelled NLA !
Dead in the water until I find one !
Wishin' someone would start churnin' these puppy's out !!!
Now what? may have to get the mig out !!!
( welders,,, the magical Machinist's helpers !!!
JC...
From: Help with automatic transmission post:
[quote=You sir have been a big help and thank you! I was able to find a local transmission shop that is going to help build it up in such a way that it meets the correct tolerances prescribed by the Bentley.
When you mentioned that your "thick" plates that aren't exactly the prescribed thickness, I took the whole assembly to the transmission shop, told them what the tolerances needed to be and asked them if they could get it there. I left it with them, and they told me to come back on Monday and it will be ready. They are going to add an additional steel plate and mill the thick plate to get it to the desired spec.
I was trying to be to literal wanting to use the exact parts and on a 25 year old vehicle with obsolete parts that's not going to be possible. I really appreciate your help! Its also nice to know there are more Vanagon drivers in the Atlanta area.
End of quote.
If I can't locate the correct thickness part
I may have to travel this path as well ?
John C... |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6348
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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That'd be a no brainer to me to add an extra steel plate as a spacer, I measured them, they are 2mm thick, either mill it down or mill the pressure plate down, but I would keep it no thinner than 6mm to avoid warping, and then mill the steel down. Put it on top under the wavy clip. Done
If I had access to affordable machine shop, I would do it, but here in Hi they suck and they are outrageously expensive.
Aloha!
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Energy Concepts
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 352
Location: Yacolt, WA
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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OK ! Wow !!!
to quote Kevin (the chief of police) on the series Leftovers;
"Is This Real" !!! What a long strange, well you know
Anywho, I've got the thing back together !!!
Not out of the woods Yet though !!!
I keep coming up with Needing a 6.98mm Shim between the two halves ???
Measure this measure that subtract and add the differance to What?
I hope I'm just discombobulated !!!
But...
The Hub; 010-323-373 May be the culprit?
It looks kind of rough on top ?
Do you think it's been ground down?
or am I just figuring the dim x wrong ?
Can anyone measure one they may have?
top to surface plate?
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6348
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Energy Concepts
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 352
Location: Yacolt, WA
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
Hello!
Roughness is ok, it is a cast part.
I measured with a depth gauge and a straight edge across the bellhousing, following the procedure in the Bentley book. |
Yaa, don't know ?? head scratch'er for me !
Maybe the whole assembly is just sitting
too low for some reason?
Fortunately, when I opened it back up
I discovered that I had 5 ea of the large diameter Splined Plates
Changed them to 4 ea & No Wavy Spacer.
But, didn't change the numbers much?
See picture; Is the whole assembly just too low ?
About .150 thousandths difference
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