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ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6360 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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You're not measuring anything with that straight edge on that picture, or is it for illusration purposes?
Most likely you're measuring wrong somewhere, unless your clutch drum is not fully seated on the pump clips, but that would sit proud.... _________________ Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Energy Concepts Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007 Posts: 352 Location: Yacolt, WA
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Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:00 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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ALIKA T3 wrote: |
You're not measuring anything with that straight edge on that picture, or is it for illusration purposes?
Most likely you're measuring wrong somewhere, unless your clutch drum is not fully seated on the pump clips, but that would sit proud.... |
Yeah, Just for illustration
So, Should it be 4 each & no Wavy?
On the first gear brake splined plates (B1)
Page 38.12 Fig 12 ?
So Near yet ... So far away
Wow! Page 4 Already ???
Sorry about all of the dumb questions !!! |
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Energy Concepts Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007 Posts: 352 Location: Yacolt, WA
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Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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One thing I'd like to mention, and I found it pretty easy to miss,
Is the Forward Planetary ring gear.
See page 38.17.
First, the Thrust Plate and
Then (1) Inner Splined Plate,
needs to be installed,
Under the Ridges on the Forward Planetary ring gear.
That's the little (bumps around the lower portion.
If you miss this note,
You may want to add all of the plates afterwards
or even at the beginning,
thinking they'll be sitting correctly
but that will probably chew everything up upon running.
Not to mention it will throw the pressure plate
adjustment way off.
I kind of wish Bentley would have circled these
not so obvious adjustments for dummies like myself !
John C...
Last edited by Energy Concepts on Sun May 14, 2017 7:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Energy Concepts Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007 Posts: 352 Location: Yacolt, WA
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Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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Now, to find out why I have such a large space on top of
the Reverse planetary ring gear/ Governor drive gear
( End Play adjustment )
To start, I'd better measure the height
of the Apply Shell ?
And back to my question;
How many 1st Reverse Plates
for a Vanagon.
I found most diagrams are generic
and covered All applications.
So, it's easy to have one too many plates in the assemblies !
At the present, I have No Wavy Plate,
and 4 ea inner and 4ea outer spline plates.
Is this correct?
Onward & upwards.
After thought; Maybe it Is Rocket Surgery ??? |
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Energy Concepts Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007 Posts: 352 Location: Yacolt, WA
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Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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OK, I may have figured it out
Measuring Diameters, It looks like
I may have been measuring the wrong surface?
see pic;
That certainly would narrow the gap down for me!
The pictures in the Bentley are quite dark
and it's hard see the detail in them.
&&& My Transmission did not have a end play shim to compare
Thanks,
JC...
Last edited by Energy Concepts on Sun May 14, 2017 7:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6360 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6360 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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Energy Concepts wrote: |
Now, to find out why I have such a large space on top of
the Reverse planetary ring gear/ Governor drive gear
( End Play adjustment )
To start, I'd better measure the height
of the Apply Shell ?
And back to my question;
How many 1st Reverse Plates
for a Vanagon.
I found most diagrams are generic
and covered All applications.
So, it's easy to have one too many plates in the assemblies !
At the present, I have No Wavy Plate,
and 4 ea inner and 4ea outer spline plates.
Is this correct?
Onward & upwards.
After thought; Maybe it Is Rocket Surgery ??? |
Sorry you had a long monologue this morning, I was sleeping at that time in HI
I count 5 steel and 5 frictions on the drawing page 38.7 for the 1st/R brake.
I don't remember having seen a wavy steel at the end on mine, but look at 38.13, fig.17, they mention 4 each. I kinda remember having an extra pair left over from the job.
That wavy top steel might be missing on mine and creating my problem for driving on D from a stop. I'm glad you pointed it out.
I just noticed 38.7, for the D/R clutch, they say to look at 38.15 for assembly/disassembly, but it is actually 38.19, and for the Forward clutch, it is not 38.12 but 38.17.
With that info, you have it all for the number of plates/steel
Sorry for the huge letters, it's for the people who will skim the subject to find the useful info _________________ Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Energy Concepts Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007 Posts: 352 Location: Yacolt, WA
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Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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ALIKA T3 wrote: |
I count 5 steel and 5 frictions on the drawing page 38.7 for the 1st/R brake.
With that info, you have it all for the number of plates/steel
Sorry for the huge letters, it's for the people who will skim the subject to find the useful info |
Edit: From another post on the Samba:
Auto Tranny - intermittent 2nd to 3rd upshift - Rebuild
The 1st/Reverse brake inner spline (friction) and outer spline (steel) plates. There are 4 of each on this transmission. My transmission did not have the wavy spring shown in the exploded view, 38.7 in the bentley. Page 38.13 explains the modification for my model of transmission and why it is not present.
So; I Dos' & I Don'ts !!!
I'm finding two different places in the Bentley showing
two different sets of numbers!
( Editing in here: Diagram in the Bentley shows 5 ea?
Looking at your pictures I could swear I'm seeing 4 ea? )
Depending on the Age and Modifications made to your particular transmission!
Just because our transmissions are from a 91 Vanagon Body
Don't mean a thing, I'm Finding !!!
Could be a 84 Trans in there a far as I can tell.
Of course, look at the number tag. But that only gets you so far!
What Modifications have been made inside that puppy
is anybody's guess !!!
Also,,, Previous re-builds !?
Don't rely on the plate count of what you find in there !
Or: Generic Manual Photo's
Last edited by Energy Concepts on Sat May 13, 2017 9:02 am; edited 5 times in total |
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ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6360 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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Cool!
Now I feel better, and I'm not at the same time... I thought it could solve my issue. I will be back to it in June now, cannot work on it for a while
My transmission was a 1991.
Aloha! _________________ Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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blackglasspirate Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2006 Posts: 1612
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Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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Alika,
This post is gold. If we ever meet, I owe you quite a few beers.
I do have a few quick questions, as I am rebuilding my auto trans for the second time in 1.5 years, currently broken down in Durango.
1. What do you guys use to clean the tranny internals? I was thinking mineral spirits, but wasn't really sure. When I did this in Chile we used Kerosene because that was what we had.
2. Does the Cobra kit come with all the differential seals, like the back to back ones as well as the axle seals?
I have ordered the kit, raybestos frictions, new spring plate, and pistons. I'm debating whether or not to get all new bushings or not, though I'd have to get a shop to remove/install them. The torque converter one is new and in good shape, the others I won't know until I remove them today. _________________ '87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee |
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ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6360 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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Hello!
You don't owe me a beer, it's our spirit to share and help others
According to my picture on page 1, the parts are included
I do cleaning with old gasoline or whatever is handy, and then non chlorinated brake cleaner.
I would replace the bushings after inspection if they have never been replaced, it can only be a good thing.
I also dismantled the valve body for cleaning, they accumulate a bunch of mud.
Aloha! _________________ Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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blackglasspirate Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2006 Posts: 1612
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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Got it
Another quick question though regarding parts. Are either the sealing rings or brake band included in the kit? In your photo I don't see the * next to those parts to indicate they are not included, but I'm assuming they aren't.
I totally forgot to order a new brake band when I ordered everything else. Thankfully I do have a lightly used one from last time I had to rebuild this damn thing last year which I could reuse if needed.
Also, the shims between the auto and the diff, where do you get those? I'm guessing between the two transmissions I have that I'll have enough shims, but am not sure and don't want to be stuck without them at the last moment :/
I have also never extracted bushings like this so now I'm off to google the process and tools I'll need... _________________ '87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee |
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blackglasspirate Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2006 Posts: 1612
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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Also, what is the name of the tool you use to remove the bushing from the oil pump and also the turbine/stator shaft? Trying to figure out how to remove those... _________________ '87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee |
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Butcher Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2015 Posts: 1285 Location: Right Here
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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blackglasspirate wrote: |
Also, what is the name of the tool you use to remove the bushing...... |
A bushing remover. To install them it's a bushing installer. |
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blackglasspirate Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2006 Posts: 1612
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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Well I figured as much, but the particular piece he pulled the oil pump bushing with doesn’t seem to come up when searching that and I can’t find it in any loaner tool program so far.
I did a little more searching and it seems it may be an extension housing bushing remover. Is that correct? I rented a slide hammer puller set but none of the extensions will work for that bushing. _________________ '87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee |
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blackglasspirate Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2006 Posts: 1612
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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blackglasspirate wrote: |
Well I figured as much, but the particular piece he pulled the oil pump bushing with doesn’t seem to come up when searching that and I can’t find it in any loaner tool program so far.
I did a little more searching and it seems it may be an extension housing bushing remover. Is that correct? I rented a slide hammer puller set but none of the extensions will work for that bushing. |
Or blind hole puller? That seems to yield results but can't find a loaner. _________________ '87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee |
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ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6360 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6360 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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You can inspect the band if it's still good and recent, you can reuse it.
Not included in the kit
I don't remember for the sealing rings, I think they're included , I had bought a kit and it turned out they were included if I remember well. Which was a good thing bc I broken one . It's a pita to reassemble the drum over new ones while lining up the discs. _________________ Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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blackglasspirate Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2006 Posts: 1612
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Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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Thanks for confirming!
I had to order a kit from Amazon because I couldn't find any local. Autozone did say they could get one for $200 but it wasn't part of their loaner program.
I got my kit from Cobra yesterday. The sealing rings are included, for future reference. Unfortunately the friction discs and steels were already opened, covered in gunk, and floating around the box. They're sending another set but it just delays my rebuild longer.
That's just how it goes! _________________ '87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee |
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Energy Concepts Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007 Posts: 352 Location: Yacolt, WA
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Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems |
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blackglasspirate wrote: |
Thanks for confirming!
I had to order a kit from Amazon because I couldn't find any local. Autozone did say they could get one for $200 but it wasn't part of their loaner program.
I got my kit from Cobra yesterday. The sealing rings are included, for future reference. Unfortunately the friction discs and steels were already opened, covered in gunk, and floating around the box. They're sending another set but it just delays my rebuild longer.
That's just how it goes! |
blackglasspirate wrote: |
Thanks for confirming!
I had to order a kit from Amazon because I couldn't find any local. Autozone did say they could get one for $200 but it wasn't part of their loaner program.
I got my kit from Cobra yesterday. The sealing rings are included, for future reference. Unfortunately the friction discs and steels were already opened, covered in gunk, and floating around the box. They're sending another set but it just delays my rebuild longer.
That's just how it goes! |
"blackglasspirate",
I think the kits have about Half of the parts really needed to do a complete rebuild !
And, some parts are No Longer Available.
(also check GoWesty ) They have a few parts that I didn't find anywhere else)
(Also a Mercedes dealer in Atlanta had several odds & ends.
I bought a new Valve Body from them
I had orders through them from Germany that in the end did not get fulfilled !
Thanks to Alika, some of the washers were manufactured for us !
But, I believe there is a re manufactured Plate for the Valve Body now?
Is that also from Alika?
Yes!!! He's the Go-To Man on these Parts !
Are you broke down because of the Transmission?
I wish you were in the PNW.
You would be welcome to use my Shop!
Keep us posted !
best,
John C...
Oh, PS: Re-Do the 2nd gear Band Adjustment a couple of times!
I found that as everything "settled" it loosened !
It's tighten 87 inch pounds,
loosen then 43 inch pounds then
back off 2 1/2 turns. (As I recall ) |
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