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Mid Engine Subaru EJ22 & 4EAT Auto Trans. Running. NOT THEORY
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furrylittleotter
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Joined: May 19, 2008
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Location: West Seattle
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject: Mid Engine Subaru EJ22 & 4EAT Auto Trans. Running. NOT THEORY Reply with quote
I got bored one day so I built this. I like it.
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Nice Stance, Eh?


Now to the build...


I was at the gas station and a guy asked me if I wanted to look at a Legacy he had for sale. Yes I do.
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Mint!
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Actual Miles...1992 with 50k? Turns out the guy was an engineer at Litton Microwave company and walked to work. At first I tried to sell the car. surrounded by fools, no one wanted to buy it, so I kept it.
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took out the go parts.
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4by 8 trailer...Say HI Daisy-Mae!
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so I cut that
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Cut that, added that...
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New crossmember 2x4" 16gauge ( I think)
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Rear framerail in front of spring "tower", added flange to allow moving framerail outboard.
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I installed rectangular tubing INSIDE the original framerails. Very strong
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Here you see the new strong inner framerails tied into the new strong crossmember...
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I tied the frame rails into the new crossmember
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I tied the floor support "Z" bars in to the crossmember but later removed them completely to raise my fuel tank...
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Here you can see the old, cut crossmember behind the new one.
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See the tubing inside the framerails...
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Final welding ( inner arm mounts not yet finished here, see other photos)
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Here I placed rods through the arm mount holes so I could measure them
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Clamped channel in rear arm mounting brackets so I could measure
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Transferred those measurements here to wood template...
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the rods are parallel, see the drawing below the arm...
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It slices, it dices, the grinder-matic...
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Section removed, plate added to weld each side to...
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Welded back together...
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fixed spring perch while I was at it...
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Used old crown on new pipe
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Removed pinch weld while at it, welded inside and added plate.
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Inside rear arm mount, final version. Gusseted. STRONG. You cant see it but the front gusset I fabricated crosses below the framerail and is welded to the tubing I added inside.
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Arm mounted on modified frame. You can see the 1" square tubing going around the engine opening here as well.
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Mockup, more cutting to do
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Measuring for valve cover removal clearance...
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still trying to figure out the inner arm mount here. needed more space to remove valve covers in utero...
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and here... as you can see in later photos ALL the top of that mount removed and gussets added to add strength to the BOTTOM instead.
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this is a C shaped engine hanger I fabricated to hang the engine. I t can be jacked in but I need to do mockups with it hanging. This worked great.
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Here the engine is in place. as you can see it could probably fit under the back seat if I had a used a front radiator, but what fun is that?
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Here is the complex frame I built to mount the radiator. It is built to allow removal of condensor coil or radiator independently.
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First attempt at carrier bar
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second and final attempt at carrier bar (temporary hardware)

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a.
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Wiring...



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I used the ENTIRE exhaust from the Legacy, reconfigured...
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I couldnt use a van shifter because this is a 4 speed... so I bought a long ass cable and welded the old cable ends on, made brackets to hold cable.
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Originally I cut the end off the factory shifter cable and welded it on the new cable. This made the cable impossible to change without more welding.
This week I cut that apart, fabricated new ends that thread onto the cable and a new stainless, adjustable bracket for the transaxle end
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Further down the rabbit hole...
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Here you can see the old HOLE in the rear from the old rear radiator, which cooled the van perfectly well, despite the naysayers
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Daisy's patience was waning. Lets play with the BALL Neil...
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Burley's axles, just cut down a bit...930 Porsche!
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Stock air box. One day i will rum a tube to the front, maybe
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Doka door grafted on
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Enclosure:
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I fabricated a 40 gallon fuel tank.
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Removable Kitchen. Ikea sink and bins for drawers.
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Installed an $80 windscreen with a new gasket

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Make Vanagons Great Again!
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Built a hitch with 1/2" plate brackets.

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used CAD ( cardboard aided design)

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reaches the famous "3rd Hole", not to be confused with "The Shocker"
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As you can see, the project was a nice challenge for one man with a few grinders and a borrowed welder. I can't remember how long or how much it cost. I believe it was 6 weeks and $2500 total, including the donor.

At the time I had just removed a "Frankenmotor" a brand new 2.5 block with 2.2 heads that had to be re-ringed and that really pissed me off. I know there are plenty of 2.5s out there without issue but the idea of having so many matched components from one car in my van was super appealing to me.

Also, the EJ22 is simply legendary in reliability., finding one with 50k on it had to be providence, and lastly I already had a BAR sticker for that engine in CA, which I planned to remain in until a headhunter found my wife and dragged us up to Seatown.

For me, the EJ22 has plenty of power.

I can not stress enough how much I wanted to get rid of the last of the garbage components from Smallcar that were left in my van. This build allowed me to do that and more.

I could build 10 vans like this for the amount of time, aggravation and money I spent on trying to make their garbage work.

I believe the only special items I bought were a throttle body wedge, cv adaptors and a 14' shifter cable.

I made the rest.

I know every single wire, bolt, etc.

To answer the radiator question a little more fully; my entire front end has been heavily modified to accept the entire heating and air system from the Subaru, so mounting the radiator back up front would be difficult also, I loved the idea of using the entire cooling system (including fans, relays, controls, even the hoses!) from the legacy as well as mounting the condenser coil and accompanying hoses, unmodified as well.

Eventually I will be modifying the nose to be much more quiet. I have another thread on this (search "proboscis") preliminary testing demonstrated incredible results.

As to the reconfiguration of the interior; we love this configuration. It is a million times more versatile and functional for our purposes than it was before.
The bed is wider, we have more storage it's way quieter and with the removable bed leaving a nice flat platform and the kitchen removed I can haul a massive amount of stuff, including full sheets of plywood.

Try that with a Westy interior.

We are 2 people and do not need a rear seat. We need a bed, and we have one. s

Well; "HOW WELL DOES IT WORK " you ask...





It runs cool as a cucumber...
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Tows my 19 foot Starcraft no problem...
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Interior is further a long but not totally done. there is rattle trap everywhere and "EZ cool" insulation as well. 4 inthes of memory foam and a feather down topper. YES, the interior is quiet. the engine is SILENT.
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Bobbie likes it (my neighbor adopted Daisy)
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Van has been on many camping trips around the area; Baker, Rainier, Orcas Island, Olympic Peninsula... the 900+ mile fuel range does not suck...
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and a special message to The Haters out there; I love my van. I built the way I wanted it. My wife loves, my dog loves it. It is super reliable, gets 26mpg, doesnt stink, can pass CA emissions, is easy to work on and basically everything I wanted it to be. So, go build your van the way you like.
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Last edited by furrylittleotter on Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:01 pm; edited 15 times in total
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
Neil is NOTafraidofit!
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'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
Mad skills!!!!!!! More pics!!
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Steve M.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:22 am    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
How is the engine noise you hear in the drivers seat?
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Gizmoman
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
furrylittleotter wrote:

Here the engine is in place. as you can see it could probably fit under the back seat if I had a used a front radiator, but what fun is that?
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Your fab, electrical skills, and ingenuity are awesome, not to mention your perseverance!
IMHO, keeping the rad in front may have been less "fun", but you'd have more "van" Wink

Still, a well done retrofit that keeps the stock tranny, AC and other refinements. How well does the transmission handle the 16" Geolanders? Do you have a transmission cooler or need one?

Congrats!
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wyldryce
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
You are a mad scientist, with skills to match! I've always wondered how your rig looks, and was constructed. Thanks for taking the time to document it all. Great work. Bummed I never inquired about it to come check it out before I moved out of Seattle Confused
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Robw_z
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:27 am    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
Before I clicked I didn't realize this was a build thread and was expecting a speculative thread of opinions, perhaps annoying ones, but wow you just did it and did it well!

It feels petty of me to have any negative comment in light of your obvious skill and hard work, but it was exciting to see a mid-engine build that seemed at first to have no down-side, no "catch", and then the radiator thing threw me off. I'm sure it functions fine there but it turns the van into a permanent rear-bed situation.

-Rob
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
Nope. No way. Don't do it. It'll never work.

Wink

- Dave
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
dhaavers wrote:
Nope. No way. Don't do it. It'll never work...


Well it works in practice -- but does it work in theory?
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jimf909 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
Perhaps the most interesting Samba post ever. I appreciate your willingness to cut, add (incl. a prosthetic nose), modify and experiment. Thanks for sharing this work.

About how long was it from first cut to rolling down the road?
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.

Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro).
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vino de vano
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
Looking great! Your design and fabrication skills are undeniable and bloody awesome. Keep it up and get-er done. You rock! Thanks for posting. Mark
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what a long strange trip it's been
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:38 am    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
would not the motor fit in the stock location?
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wcdennis
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
Deja view. Wasn't this build posted somewhere before? Seeing it again does not diminish how impressive it is.
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gears
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
Neil, working at a higher level .. Nice !!
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
As a teenager, I stuffed a Chevy 350 into a Beetle with a mid-engine install and a Corvair transaxle installed backwards and reverse rotation. It might sound impressive, but all the parts were in a kit by Kelmark. (I couldn't even weld back then.) It was fast, but ate the first Corvair transaxle promptly. I gave up, replaced the transaxle and sold it along with a warning to "take it easy in first gear." I heard that the next owner went through a handful of those Saginaw gearboxes.

That experience made me fearful and conservative on almost all future projects and I went with the crowd after that, going to the 2180 cc Type 1, Berg parts, Rancho transaxle, etc etc. On my first Westy (1973), I went with Ford 2.3 power and a Kennedy adaptor. On my current Westy, an SVX.

Shame on me. Neil, you are a very brave soul. Your design and execution are very, very, impressive. Bravo! You and Thumper have done some amazing things with your mid-engine projects and I watch and read with great admiration. If I am not that brave, don't think I am a hater. I am an admirer.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
Howesight wrote:
As a teenager, I stuffed a Chevy 350 into a Beetle with a mid-engine install and a Corvair transaxle installed backwards and reverse rotation. It might sound impressive, but all the parts were in a kit by Kelmark. (I couldn't even weld back then.) It was fast, but ate the first Corvair transaxle promptly. I gave up, replaced the transaxle and sold it along with a warning to "take it easy in first gear." I heard that the next owner went through a handful of those Saginaw gearboxes.

That experience made me fearful and conservative on almost all future projects and I went with the crowd after that, going to the 2180 cc Type 1, Berg parts, Rancho transaxle, etc etc. On my first Westy (1973), I went with Ford 2.3 power and a Kennedy adaptor. On my current Westy, an SVX.

Shame on me. Neil, you are a very brave soul. Your design and execution are very, very, impressive. Bravo! You and Thumper have done some amazing things with your mid-engine projects and I watch and read with great admiration. If I am not that brave, don't think I am a hater. I am an admirer.


i got a kelmark, rear engined car, although they also offered it in mid engine style.


on this van, did the subaru engine not fit the engine space? why mid motor?
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WestyBob
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
That has to be the longest continuous picture post I've ever seen in one thread.

Normally I'm one of those 'do not molest' guys but I have to say sometimes there's a higher calling or something like that that takes us into the twilight zone of alterations.

So with that I say kudos to the OP with only thoughts of doing it with a 2.5 L next time.
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ejimmi
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
Whoa Neil! Ive heard rumors of your van, but i had no idea the level you took it. Solid work!
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yiucycle
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
Wow mad skill, please post video. Love to see the interior and running.
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0cean
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Mid Engine Subaru Build with Subaru 4 speed Automatic Trans. Reply with quote
Wow, and I thought i was off my rocker.... great job and enjoy it. You have inspired me to work on my van.... Maybe we will see you at Syncro Fest next year...
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(Number of Different Donor VW Vans Body Parts Used: 12)
(Number of completely different vehicles parts used: 3)
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