| Author |
Message |
SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
 Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Innovate LC-2 wideband install |
 |
|
make sure any vacuum leaks are found, injector seals etc, before setting it. Gary (Aeromech) pointed me to a guy on Ebay that sells smoke generators pretty inexpensive. They use mineral oil and create smoke. I hooked mine up recently to a 2004 mercury sable wagon we have and almost instantly found a leaking O-ring that cost me about 1/2 hour and $7 or $8 to fix. What a difference in how the car runs. Can't wait to try it on my bay.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
airkooledchris
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005
Posts: 2713
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Innovate LC-2 wideband install |
|
|
| furgo wrote: |
Thanks aerosurfer for the great post. I've had it bookmarked for a while and now I'm looking at it in more detail and considering a future installation of a gauge/sensor combo (without the extra controller for data logging).
The MTX-L Plus that Willems installed seems to be the current Innovate product for that (I've not looked at other manufacturers yet). Btw, the MTX-AL is also nice as an analog dial gauge (it's probably still a digital gauge behind the scenes, so I assume the accuracy to be the same on both).
| Willems wrote: |
| The kit comes with an 8 Ft. extension cable, but it still is to short. I extended the 8Ft. with Siemens Profinet cable (with shield) and used some regular cable for the sensor heating. I have pictures of the self made extension but it seems I can't upload to the samba gallery. |
I'd be interested in seeing the pictures of your installation and the extension. Did you ever manage to upload them?
Thanks.
You were asking a while ago whether this setup would make it possible to tune the CO value via the AFM. Given that the AFR can be converted to CO via the table SGKent posted a few posts back, did you ever use it for that purpose? |
https://www.amazon.com/Innovate-Motorsports-3828-Extension-Sensor/dp/B001S7PI6K
When I did my MTX-L install, I simply used the available extension cord they make for it. It's a little pricey, but it seems really well built. It's been permanently installed in my bus for 5 years now without any issues. I run it under the bus in a heavy sleeve to give it a little bit of protection.
FWIW, I tuned my AFM to what everyone else did initially, but in the end I went much richer in order to keep my head temps in a happy zone. I don't know what it is about the build of the engine I have, but it needs fuel to stay happy so that's what I give it. I idle around 12.8-13 and WOT is in the low 10's (when im running my 'Highway AFM', Vs my 'city' AFM.) I picked up a spare AFM a while back and I swap in a different tuned one for vacations when im loaded with weight and headed for the highways. I run a much leaner one for the 95% of the time im just puttering around town or short hour+- drives nearby.
Having the MTX-L is great because you can constantly monitor where you are at with AF/R Vs what your CHT gauge is reading. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
furgo
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016
Posts: 944
Location: Southern Germany
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Innovate LC-2 wideband install |
|
|
Excellent, thanks for sharing this!
_________________
'79 Westy, P22 interior, FI 2.0 l Federal, GE engine (hydraulic lifters)
Decode your M-Plate |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Willems
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2016
Posts: 56
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Innovate LC-2 wideband install |
|
|
| furgo wrote: |
Thanks aerosurfer for the great post. I've had it bookmarked for a while and now I'm looking at it in more detail and considering a future installation of a gauge/sensor combo (without the extra controller for data logging).
The MTX-L Plus that Willems installed seems to be the current Innovate product for that (I've not looked at other manufacturers yet). Btw, the MTX-AL is also nice as an analog dial gauge (it's probably still a digital gauge behind the scenes, so I assume the accuracy to be the same on both).
| Willems wrote: |
| The kit comes with an 8 Ft. extension cable, but it still is to short. I extended the 8Ft. with Siemens Profinet cable (with shield) and used some regular cable for the sensor heating. I have pictures of the self made extension but it seems I can't upload to the samba gallery. |
I'd be interested in seeing the pictures of your installation and the extension. Did you ever manage to upload them?
Thanks.
You were asking a while ago whether this setup would make it possible to tune the CO value via the AFM. Given that the AFR can be converted to CO via the table SGKent posted a few posts back, did you ever use it for that purpose? |
The first picture is the original extension cable. As you can see the red and blue wire from the heating are seperated from the data wires.
In the next 2 pictures you can see the extension I made. I used a separate wire for the heating as you can see in picture 3.
The non insulated wire in the original extension cable is connected to the 'shield' (grey alu foil). The yellow wire and the yellow with red dots are connected to the same connector pin (I placed the red dots on it).
So you have 3 data wires and one non insulated shield wire.
This is a better picture of what I build:
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
telford dorr
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3555
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Innovate LC-2 wideband install |
|
|
Pics don't show.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
furgo
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016
Posts: 944
Location: Southern Germany
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Innovate LC-2 wideband install |
|
|
Thanks for the follow-up.
| telford dorr wrote: |
| Pics don't show. |
Indeed, I can't see the pics either.
@Willems, I think you need to share them in Google photos before anyone else can see them. Right now, I'd say only you can see those pics.
_________________
'79 Westy, P22 interior, FI 2.0 l Federal, GE engine (hydraulic lifters)
Decode your M-Plate |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Willems
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2016
Posts: 56
|
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Innovate LC-2 wideband install |
|
|
I will try to upload them tomorrow... 
I was wondering what A/F readings you get while coasting (still in gear)?
Mine is reading very rich, like 12.5. Is this normal? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Innovate LC-2 wideband install |
|
|
| Willems wrote: |
I will try to upload them tomorrow...
I was wondering what A/F readings you get while coasting (still in gear)?
Mine is reading very rich, like 12.5. Is this normal? |
Coasting dumps unburned fuel. That is normal. FI bays have a decal valve that adds air to help eliminate that condition.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Willems
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2016
Posts: 56
|
| Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 5:30 am Post subject: High Air Fuel Ratios While Coasting |
|
|
| SGKent wrote: |
| Willems wrote: |
I will try to upload them tomorrow...
I was wondering what A/F readings you get while coasting (still in gear)?
Mine is reading very rich, like 12.5. Is this normal? |
Coasting dumps unburned fuel. That is normal. FI bays have a decal valve that adds air to help eliminate that condition. |
So a reading of 12.5 is normal? Or is my decel valve not working correctly? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aerosurfer
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2012
Posts: 1602
Location: Indianapolis, IN
|
| Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Innovate LC-2 wideband install |
|
|
No... it should be lean when coasting in gear.... like 16+. Even under part throttle in a high gear you may see numbers above 14. Did you first do the calibration process on the sensor? If your sure its not that, then make sure the exhaust is sealed (although that wouldn't likely give rich readings. Then go through the FI guide and lastly try Colins guide to messing with the AFM
Whats your normal idle numbers as well as at highway speeds and full throttle
_________________
Rebuild your own FI Harness..My Harness
77 Westy 2.0L Rockin and Rolling Resto!
72 Sportsmobile (sold)
79 Tran$porter... Parts car money machine (gone) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Willems
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2016
Posts: 56
|
| Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Innovate LC-2 wideband install |
|
|
| aerosurfer wrote: |
No... it should be lean when coasting in gear.... like 16+. Even under part throttle in a high gear you may see numbers above 14. Did you first do the calibration process on the sensor? If your sure its not that, then make sure the exhaust is sealed (although that wouldn't likely give rich readings. Then go through the FI guide and lastly try Colins guide to messing with the AFM
Whats your normal idle numbers as well as at highway speeds and full throttle |
Idle mixture: 14
3rd gear 30mph: 14.5
4th gear 40mph: 14.5
4th gear 50mph: 14.0
WOT: between 12 and 12.3
I think the decel valve is the problem. My Idle is also returning very slowly to 900rpm.
It doesn't hold vacuum (small connection on the valve) so I think the rubber inside is cracked... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Willems
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2016
Posts: 56
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:43 am Post subject: Re: Innovate LC-2 wideband install |
|
|
| Changed the decel valve and the problems are solved. Ide is returning quicker and the A/F numbers while coasting are better also (14-15) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
