diagnosis help? Buggy engine cutting out

[doubravsky]

I'm hoping this belongs here and not the engine forum.. if not let me know and I'll move it.

This morning, buggy began cutting out (meaning complete instant loss of all power for a second or two, then back on... then out... then on). I'm guessing it's ignition/spark related.

It's an 1835 Type I... dual Weber 40s, 009 distributor, and the electronic ignition points replacement (can't remember brand). It's got relatively new plug and coil wires, and only about 1,000 miles on a new 70 amp alternator. oh yeah.. 12 volt.

I'm not much of a mechanic, so my first instinct is to just start replacing stuff... but not sure if I should start with the coil, electronic ignition, distributor... coil wire first...... any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

[Dale M.]

Put points back in for start... Sound like ignition issues if its sort of off/on like somebody keying ignition.... Make sure all connections are tight on coil....Dont start replacing stuff willie-nillie that is very expensive way to trouble shoot...

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[doubravsky]

Dale,

Thanks! It is exactly like someone keying the ignition. I'll start with coil connections and points.... actually I may have a spare electronic points replacement in my emergency toolbag... I'll try that first.

[andygere]

Could be the coil, I've had them go intermittently for a while before failing completely. Can you borrow a spare to determine if that's a factor? Point's replacement electronics are another source of possible trouble as Dale mentioned. Also, pull of the distributor cap and look inside. Does the center contact point look intact, or is there a lot of black dust in there? I've had that fail with intermittent operation as well. Finally, check your ground strap/cable. If that think is loose, you'll get exactly the same thing, on-off-on-off behavior.

[wythac]

Here is some buggy specific tuning/diagnosis advice;

Did you drive the buggy in the rain or wash it right before you had these problems?

With the lack of an engine compartment on a buggy to keep your motor and its electrical components dry, you'd be surprised how little water in/on your electrics it takes to affect engine performance. Put dialectic grease on all your plug wire connections, check the inside of your distributor cap for moisture. For starters.

Good luck, hope you figure it out soon and get back on the highway.

[doubravsky]

Thanks for all of the great tips! I checked the coil connnections and they all looked good. Put in spare points replacement- no change. So I figured most likely coil- replaced it with a pertronix coil- problem solved! Great to be back on the road so easily! Appreciate all the quick help- Samba is such a great resource.....

[tgodber]

This site is great. So nice that people are willing to share their expertise.
Thanks for coming back and telling us the solution to the problem.
_________________
My wife said I never listen to her.
Or something like that!

[doubravsky]

Well damn. I thought it was fixed. Drove it 15 miles to work with no problem. Went to get lunch, and it's doing the same thing again.

Seems weird that replacing the coil seemed to fix it temporarily. Wondering if I have a loose connection somewhere. I think i'll follow the coil wires ... can anyone tell me where they go?

[tgodber]

_________________
My wife said I never listen to her.
Or something like that!

[YDBD]

If changing the coil seemed to have fixed it, I'm thinking poor connection or faulty wire as you moved them to switch the coil out.

Give a little extra squeeze on the female spade ends on the coil to make sure they are tight. Check the wires, make sure there are no insulation openings that can short out against metal chassis/engine parts. Replace the spade ends if they don't look good. Wires and insulation should be pliable. Check your key ignition and make sure all the connections are screwed tight.

[AMAC1680]

[doubravsky]

Thanks for the tips. I'm going to attack it this weekend... and report back

[EVfun]

Though I'd add, it could be the ignition switch. The VW steering column mounted ones have been known to fail after years of service. Aftermarket ones are of variable quality.
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[doubravsky]

I'm definitely going to check the ignition switch wires.... the switch itself is only a year old so I hope it's not the culprit. But since I added the 3" lift a lot of wires got stretched up under the dash....

[rotorhed]

Don't neglect to physically check the switch itself. As someone posted earlier the replacements are of dubious quality, so age and or frequency of use may not factor in. In my daily driver Ghia, I had a switch physically fail (the crimp of the metal body of the switch failed) causing intermittent firing issues just like you described. I chased the electrical gremlins for weeks until finally it happened while my radio was on and it cut out at the same time. Luckily i just re-crimped the switch body and all was fine. By the way this switch was a replacement that was less than 6 months old!

[doubravsky]

Well I think it's figured out. I verified that power was constant at ignition switch when it cut out. Then I verified power was constant at coil + end when cut out. Then I figured out that there was no spark at the plugs when it cut out. Then I went and bought a spark tester and found that it was losing spark at coil output to distributor.

I noticed that there was a weird white plastic thing that the power from ignition hooked to and then from there it went to coil. Sending a pic to a buddy helped me realize it was a resistor. Then I looked at the old coil and it had written on it "external resistor required".

Did a little searching a read that the pertronix flamethrower coil (new one) is 3 ohm and doesn't need a resistor.

So my current working theory is that using the coil with the resistor is why it starting failing after about an hour of use. I took out the resistor and will replace coil tomorrow. Hopefully that will do it......

[doubravsky]

Ok failed again. Picked up new coil. Same problem. I'm at a loss now. I know that with the spark tester thing connected to the distributor and the coil wire going to coil, the light goes out right when it starts to cut out. I assumed that meant it had to be on the coil side. Could it be the distributor or the compu fire points replacement? I pulled compu fire and looked at the wires that go to coil,.... not frayed or anything. All the contact points on that top round plastic thing look good. Rotor looks ok. I tried putting a new main wire from coil to distributor top. Grrr........ any thoughts?

[YDBD]

I tried the compufire about 7 years ago, had problems...I went back to points, have no problems. Could be just me, but the points work and the compufire did not.

I guess switch out one thing at a time if you can, problem is most shops won't let you return used electronic parts, but you will have spares when you do figure it out.

[Dale M.]

Try this test when it stops ..Connect a test light to terminal #1 of coil and ground.... Try stating the buggy if test lamp flashes off-on-off-on as starter spins engine coil and points module is good ... If light stay on, module has probably failed (gone open or losing ground for module) but coil is good... If light does not come on, coil is bad (open), or losing power or points module is bad...

This $5 tool can be your new best friend...

Unusual for points module to fail after a periods of running, but something inside may be temperature sensitive, usually points modules just totally fail if they are going to...

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[doubravsky]

Thanks Dale..... would terminal #1 of coil be the + side? (my assumption).