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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16883
Location: sticksville, ct.
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 Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: |
The two people that have posted photos and complained about the KF piece not fitting are letting the photos speak for themselves. Both of them are seamed on a body line, and the one cut in multiple pieces has all sorts of backing pieces/ terribly trimmed pieces, etc. I've put several of these in, and never had to hack them up like that. Please leave things like this to professionals if you aren't going to do a good job. Otherwise you might as well fill it with fiberglass/ POR15 like 90% of the baywindow forum does  |
X2...from the forum's other grade 1 asshole 
the problem is your poor repairs to "your" busses end up someone else's nightmare when you try to pass off "your" bus as "restored" or "rust free" when you sell "your forever, never gonna sell it" bus for top dollar. (or at least try to get top dollar that is)
just an observation after crushing about 8 peoples dreams of buying a "restored" or "rust free" bus.
I am still of the mindset that quality rust work with good documentation is a value added asset when you want to sell a old car....not just a bus. it's like all the split guys all boo fucking hoo'ing about buses like Dave Kindig's bus pulling 6 figures because their bus can't ever hold a candle to the quality that went into it.....those guys should be blowing guys like Kindig for making their bus worth more....not being whiny bitches that it's destroying the "hobby"....it isn't the 80's anymore....the hobby has changed...change with it or leave....that's my feeling about it. do it right or don't bother. most people prefer "original rust" so it can be fixed right....nothing worse than un-fucking someone's idea of a "repair"
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Westfalia73
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2016
Posts: 121
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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No the roof is original as far as I can tell. This is one of those Brazilian hybrid half bay half split, front end bay window and from the front doors back is splitty with the cargo doors, 14 windows.
It looks kind of cool and strange at the same time, something different from my German one
I'm working my way through it but have to be honest and say the build quality is poor and looks to have been put together poorly and quickly from new, absolutely no rust treatment on any panels from new by the looks of it, the whole thing is pretty crusty but I'm enjoying the challenge and it will look good when I'm done. |
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williamM
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008
Posts: 4333
Location: southwest Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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[quote="skills@eurocarsplus"][quote="VWsArent4Hippies"]The two people that have posted photos and complained about the KF piece not fitting are letting the photos speak for themselves.
X2...from the forum's other grade 1 asshole
More than anything- I would like to hear of a better way than Gerson panels and welded seams to fix a front windshield repair.
Clearly the panels were not a drop in fit. so something had to be done.
Maybe you would put a full clip on to fix a rusty windshield- sorry but the available $ that month would not support over kill.
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some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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Westfalia73
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2016
Posts: 121
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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No one can ever say the new metal I welded in to my 73 is a worse repair than filling it with filler and fibreglass.
It may not be up to a few people's standards on here but like I said, it doesn't leak, has no filler.
That green panel if I'm honest was shit, no way it was going in as a one piece, if I had known how bad the green panel was going to be I would have done a complete front, but hey, I'm happy, it's MY bus........ |
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Westfalia73
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2016
Posts: 121
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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No one can ever say the new metal I welded in to my 73 is a worse repair than filling it with filler and fibreglass.
It may not be up to a few people's standards on here but like I said, it doesn't leak, has no filler.
That green panel if I'm honest was shit, no way it was going in as a one piece, if I had known how bad the green panel was going to be I would have done a complete front, but hey, I'm happy, it's MY bus........ |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16883
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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| williamM wrote: |
More than anything- I would like to hear of a better way than Gerson panels and welded seams to fix a front windshield repair.
Clearly the panels were not a drop in fit. so something had to be done.
Maybe you would put a full clip on to fix a rusty windshield- sorry but the available $ that month would not support over kill. |
the gerson ones fit fine (if you have a clue) personally, I feel that the early ones are/were better....seems that over times his dies went to hell.
the only way to fix it is with metal...period. any other way is just a Band-Aid repair. how many lipstick on pigs threads are there in the bay forum? I rest my case.....
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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orwell84
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 2539
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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| I always expect even high quality panels to require quite a bit of time to fit right. I have always considered it just the nature of body work. As a hobbyist, I feel like I can do decent work but takes me a lot more time than someone who does it for a living. Since I have had my bus for over 25 years, I am able to learn from my mistakes. Sometimes even good work I have done long ago has to be redone. |
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blue72beetle
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2008
Posts: 846
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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The Gerson piece isn't supposed to be welded in whole, you never weld along body lines. Only cut away bad metal, don't cut away perfectly fine German metal just because that's what shape the new piece is.
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-1970 Ghia-
-1971 Bus 1776 Microsquirt EFI- |
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VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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Haha, wow, these responses are great! Unfortunately, some people here get it, and most don't.
| Westfalia73 wrote: |
Wow, if you think fibre glass and some rust killer is a better result than the new metal I welded in you are a bigger dick than you sound, I am more than happy with my repair, no filler and it looks good, is water tight.
It's people like you that turn people off from this forum, we are just trying to do the best job we can on "our" buses, not yours.
You sir are a grade one arse hole. |
Me stating the harsh truth is not me being a dick. It's me acknowledging the reality that these are now collector vehicles, and people like you just trying to get by.
Why is your repair on the same level as others just throwing fiberglass at it? See all of those backing pieces put in place as a safeguard because you can't properly buttweld? That's one indication. See how there's zero indication of any kind of weld through primer, or cavity protection? Hey, there's another. Let me guess, you accomplished all of that with only electric powered tools? Like I said, some people get it. Most don't. I'm not trying to argue, or belittle anyone, just pointing out that what you may think is an adequate repair, isn't necessarily.
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| aeromech wrote: |
| in my opinion you don't know shit |
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orwell84
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 2539
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:53 am Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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If I was trying to sell my bus for top dollar, I would provide photos of the all the work I did to it, rust repair as well as engine work. I would also provide invoices for the parts that went into it as well as the notes I have for my engine rebuild which include all the measurements for the parts, where the machining was done, compression ratio calculations with accompanying photos, etc. I would expect the potential buyer to have someone who understands car restoration to look it over before making an offer.
I'm sorry, but if you blow a big wad of cash on a bus with a "rebuilt engine" and shiny paint without doing your homework on it than yer an idiot and you deserve to end up with a bondo sculpture covering an armature of rust and wads of newspaper. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16883
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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| orwell84 wrote: |
I'm sorry, but if you blow a big wad of cash on a bus with a "rebuilt engine" and shiny paint without doing your homework on it than yer an idiot and you deserve to end up with a bondo sculpture covering an armature of rust and wads of newspaper. |
yep....and stay away from laser straight buses.....they are carved out of filler. not 1 bus left the factory straight. I have done this so long, I know where the waves/whips and spot welds should be.
it was the way they were put together that causes this. some people think they were straight, flat panels....that's not the case. but that's a story for another thread.
funny how the DIY hack crowd gets celebrated, but when someone goes and does it right, they are somehow the bad guy for pointing out the obvious...
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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orwell84
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 2539
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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Off to fix my dash wiring that some 20-something college boy ass-hat butchered back in the early 90's... |
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tomq
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2011
Posts: 38
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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I have a 78 with the rust on the the lower windshield frame. My rust has crept beyond the gasket holding the window. I don't think I can just replace the metal "ledge" that is underneath the gasket with those metal pieces from England.
Out of curiosity, why does everyone seem to choose to fix the rust by using the using the shorter lower windshield section that cover the bulge, rather than replacing the whole front panel which goes pass the headlamp holes? Is it about the quality of the front panel or the cost or the total amount of work?
Thanks in advance. |
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wcfvw69 
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
funny how the DIY hack crowd gets celebrated, but when someone goes and does it right, they are somehow the bad guy for pointing out the obvious... |
By who, other hack-o-rama's? 
These VW's are not cheap and disposable anymore. They are continuing to appreciate in value. Again, I get that funds have to be considered when folks are trying to repair their VW. But some of the butchery and horrific repairs are hard to view. Some people are naturally good at doing these repairs where others are not and should let others work on their VW's.
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Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
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tomq
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2011
Posts: 38
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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Here's what my rust looks like:
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notchboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 22463
Location: Escondido CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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| blue72beetle wrote: |
| The Gerson piece isn't supposed to be welded in whole, you never weld along body lines. Only cut away bad metal, don't cut away perfectly fine German metal just because that's what shape the new piece is. |
You all need to pause and realize most don't know things like this. Like myself when fixing the 74. I said the fit was not great and the samba jumped my shit.
It wasn't till later someone explained this to me.
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| t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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williamM
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008
Posts: 4333
Location: southwest Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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compared to the OP's mess- thats not going to be too bad--   Mine was from the salt air in Santa Cruz- It had eaten the top gutters and windshield area . I chose the belt-line up portion because the weld is not seen from that part of the bus. The whole -or- partial clip would have been nicer , but 3 x the money- and as we're not talking a museum piece here, (I didn't want wet feet every time it rained) the top clip was the best option. The entire clip was used -but the corners need some cutting adjustments to fit the A pillar and the curve was spot on as the windshield popped right in tight.
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some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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orwell84
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 2539
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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I was looking at this thread and it seems like this is the best way to use the Gerson panel or th other one like it:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=80
The Gerson panel seems to end at a factory crease/bend which would seem to be a hard place to weld and grind without losing that body line unless you were really good.
Cutting and welding in the Gerson panel somewhere in the bulge part would seem to be the better option because you it would be easier to grind it smooth and it would give you a good reference point to weld to that has some shape and strength to it. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16883
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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sheet metal work 101:
never disturb a factory body line unless it's 100% necessary. leave at minimum 1/4" above the said line to weld to.
most of the windshield pieces I have done only needed to be sectioned in. the reality is if it needs below the beltline then it's nose time imho
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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lil-jinx
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1109
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Windshield Rust repair |
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When I did my windshield I cut on an angle from the part lights up to the corner of the windshield,it was a real B to fit,if i was to do it again i would go straight across to the doors,another 3 hours on friday filing out the weld lines,would hate to have to pay for my time.seems for every dollar I spend on it I also spend an hour of time.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes. |
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