Battery lid short. Now van be dead. Where do I start?

[ultra_runner]

I am in the process of a Franken van remodel but this is a whole other story... Right now the problem is while removing the tent a friend stepped on the battery lid making contact with the positive battery connections, main and two aux and when I started it smoke came from dash and now the van will not start where do I begin to start chasing down the damage caused by the short.
Thank you for the help I figure this is somewhere else but could not find it with the metal lids I assume others have gone before me.

[Steve M.]

Start by disconnecting the battery if you have not done so already.

What year Vanagon is this?

Do you have a Bentley manual or the other maintenance manual where you can see an electrical schematic?

Then undo the screws for the fuse panel and start taking pictures as you move it out of the way to see what happened behind it.

Assume it is wires going to the Ignition key lock as that has the power going to it. Or lighting, or radio or or or....

Do not start looking into the dash before disconnecting the battery as just sticking your fingers in there can cause bare wires to touch and short out again.

Follow the burned wiring and writing down each color and location of the burned wires so you can refer back to what you did next week.

You can replace wiring with any suitable size wire, but if your like me you might want the original color coded wiring and the only way to get that is to buy a used wire harness or go to a U-Pull It salvage yard and find a older German car and remove a wire harness with the same color coded wires you can use.
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[ultra_runner]

Steve,
Great advice will do the battery is disconnected I will snap some photos and post them figure people love to see carnage. I will get a Bentley and start building a list. Hoped it would be easy
Nick

[Ahwahnee]

[pablum]

[lucianosanchez]

Did any fuses blow? I agree that looking into burnt wires might help you find the issue. And it would be good to know if it is cranking at all.
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[fxr]

I'm not understanding wires burning elsewhere. If the the lid shorted on the positive terminal - just the lid and its attachment to the frame would show signs of damage. The short-circuit current wouldn't be tracking anywhere else.
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[crazyvwvanman]

Agreed, but it depends on exactly what shorted. For example if it was a solenoid relay power stud like on the GoWesty clunker relay then it could have shorted the power feed from the starting battery. Since the standard GW aux kit installation uses the dash fuse/relay panel as the starting battery power source that could damage things at the dash wiring.

Mark

[Steve M.]

[Wildthings]

Cut a piece out of the flat side of a gallon oil jug and glue it to the underside of the metal battery cover using an appropriate cement. Why VW didn't see the need to insulate the underside of the cover to start with is beyond me.

[pushkick]

i threw my metal battery cover away and made a new one out of 1/8" noryl sheet. this stuff is used as an electrical insulator. so the possibility of shorting is gone. i also cut the back side of the battery box out and made it a hinged door so the battery could be removed by sliding it out instead of lifting it out. and i used a 1" nylon strap that wraps around the battery to make it easy to remove battery and close the top of battery box. the battery stock plastic handle always seemed to stick up too much and interfered with the lid closing.
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[Merian]

[jimf909]

[pablum]

I have some fiber reinforced rubber there from the PO. Not good enough! I guess I should file down the melty spots on the terminal while I look for a better solution.
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[bluebus86]

[crazyvwvanman]

No one said anything about starter power. The solenoid talked about is one commonly used for aux battery setup. GW sells aux battery kits with them. They are usually used to tie the starting battery to the aux battery, under certain conditions like when the engine is already running so they both share the alternator charging current.

Mark

[bluebus86]

[Jeffrey Lee]

Depending on your aux battery setup, there may be several ‘hot’ Positive wires crammed alongside the battery. If the battery shifts and chafes one of these wires against the chassis, or something similar to the OP, obviously a dangerous short will result.

There isn’t much clearance in the battery box and an off-the-shelf battery cover won’t fit, so I make them from plastic file organizers. Just make a few cuts to remove the front ‘wall’ of the box and a few inches off the top, then flip it upside-down and slip it over the battery. Depending on the size of the box, it may or may not fit inside the Vanagon compartment; if not, simply cut the Negative end of the battery cover to make the whole thing fit. You really only need the Positive end protected anyway.

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[Sodo]

I glued a thick piece of gray plastic onto the lid with silicone. It's over the positive terminal only. There's no need to protect the negative terminal. You can cut a square of thick plastic from a white 5-gal pail lid or bucket bottom. Lots of items to get plastic from.

That webbing strap is to help lift the battery out.

Jeffree Lee I wouldn't use those Rubbermaid® or Sterilite® products ot those dept store bins for anything that you want to remain for a few years. They are engineered plastics. After their time-limit they become brittle & crack easily (so you have to buy replacements). Sometime after you have forgotten that you will never again purchase Rubbermaid® or Sterilite® products (......and the cycle repeats. )
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[bluebus86]

I run stock sized battery, stock held in place, stock lid with added a little square of plastic plate, hot glued on lid over positive terminal. I have had no acid leakage, fume nor liquid, nor any other problems with the stock set up. I attribute a sound charging system, clean tight connections and a good condition battery to the lack of acid damage.

for case of plastic boxes and such, make sure the battery is secured in case the van is tipped over. a loose battery has enough wieght to punch thru some plastic batter box lids with the protruding terminals during a tip over of the vehicle. This can result in a short circuit on the metal surfaces such as the stock battery compartment lid.

so tie them batteries down, sure the seat over the battery may contain the batterry in the compartment under the seat in a tip over crash, but if that battery is free to flop around, it may punch thru a wimpy tupperware battery box lid, it aint like we are saving leftovers here, this is fire prevention in a crash. Plus what person possibly unable to move, hanging strapped in their seat wants sulfuric acid to be dripping out of the seat cushion on to them

Too be safe the battery must be securely attached to the car, or its box must be so attached and able to contain said battery from being thrust thru it in a high speed crash, roll over etc....

If the box is used for containing the battery, it must be of sufficient strength to do so over several G's of force lets say you hit a brick wall at about 30 mph, and the loose battery wieghs just under 40 lbs. the 30 mph is equivelent velocity on impact of roughly a 30 foot free fall. so the battery box needs to be pretty stout if it is what secures the battery. (That is what was calculated, I did NOT confirm the formula used in calculation, it is after all on the world wide web thus it must be right ).

https://www.angio.net/personal/climb/speed.html

good luck
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