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txasylum
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2004
Posts: 389
Location: Boyers, PA
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 Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:08 pm Post subject: Starting problems |
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I rebuilt the motor and put it in the car (1973 AK motor 1600). Carb is a 34 Pict-3. It runs great; however, i am having some problems. I run the car, turn it off. It will start easily if I start it back up within a minute or two, but if I let it sit for several minutes (10-15 maybe a bit more), it is hard to start. I have to crank it over and over and over hardly giving it any gas and then it slowly starts.
I wondered about vapor lock, but am not sure. If it is, what can I do about it?
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gingergypsy
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2016
Posts: 129
Location: Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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how warm are you getting the engine before these short breaks?
_________________
Royal Red 1970 Beetle "Elizabeth Bathory"
Currently residing in yosemite valley with Elizabeth, if you are in the park come say hi! |
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txasylum
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2004
Posts: 389
Location: Boyers, PA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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Running it a couple miles. Really not a long time.
| gingergypsy wrote: |
| how warm are you getting the engine before these short breaks? |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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After you run it, check that fuel is not dripping down the carb throat. Remove air cleaner and watch or check every few minutes for ten minutes after shut down.
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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| txasylum wrote: |
I rebuilt the motor and put it in the car (1973 AK motor 1600). Carb is a 34 Pict-3. It runs great; however, i am having some problems. I run the car, turn it off. It will start easily if I start it back up within a minute or two, but if I let it sit for several minutes (10-15 maybe a bit more), it is hard to start. I have to crank it over and over and over hardly giving it any gas and then it slowly starts.
I wondered about vapor lock, but am not sure. If it is, what can I do about it?
|
Sorry to say txasylum, this is a very common problem on these cars, there are dozens of threads about the same topic- and unfortunately no one really knows what causes it or how to fix it.
I've been having the same issue on my car for months, doesn't seem to be as bad during colder months but once the weather warms back up, it's a pretty prevalent issue. It's weird right? if you just shut the car off long enough to get gas, it will start right back up--but if you go in to do some grocery shopping and then try to restart the car it's terribly difficult. In my case i even have fuel getting siphoned down the carb throat directly from my float bowl! I was hoping maybe changing my carb gasket would fix it but nope, once it got warm here again the issue returns. But i bet if you leave the car for like 45 minutes or more, it will be easy to start again. There's just a "window" of time there, from about 15 minutes to a little over a half hour, where once the car has been really driven and warmed up, it throws that curve ball at you. It's frustrating I know.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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heimlich 
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6616
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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| Adjust your valves and check your timing. |
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Tom Butler
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2016
Posts: 287
Location: Bay Area, California
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| txasylum wrote: |
I rebuilt the motor and put it in the car (1973 AK motor 1600). Carb is a 34 Pict-3. It runs great; however, i am having some problems. I run the car, turn it off. It will start easily if I start it back up within a minute or two, but if I let it sit for several minutes (10-15 maybe a bit more), it is hard to start. I have to crank it over and over and over hardly giving it any gas and then it slowly starts.
I wondered about vapor lock, but am not sure. If it is, what can I do about it?
|
Sorry to say txasylum, this is a very common problem on these cars, there are dozens of threads about the same topic- and unfortunately no one really knows what causes it or how to fix it.
I've been having the same issue on my car for months, doesn't seem to be as bad during colder months but once the weather warms back up, it's a pretty prevalent issue. It's weird right? if you just shut the car off long enough to get gas, it will start right back up--but if you go in to do some grocery shopping and then try to restart the car it's terribly difficult. In my case i even have fuel getting siphoned down the carb throat directly from my float bowl! I was hoping maybe changing my carb gasket would fix it but nope, once it got warm here again the issue returns. But i bet if you leave the car for like 45 minutes or more, it will be easy to start again. There's just a "window" of time there, from about 15 minutes to a little over a half hour, where once the car has been really driven and warmed up, it throws that curve ball at you. It's frustrating I know. |
This is a very well written explanation.
Im in the same boat.
_________________
1971 Super Beetle
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=674120
Proud Member Pata De Perro Vw Club
| iowegian wrote: |
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Mikedrevguy
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008
Posts: 2240
Location: Medford, OR
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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First think in the morning, how does the car start?
_________________
74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
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txasylum
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2004
Posts: 389
Location: Boyers, PA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:25 am Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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It fires right up when it is cold.
| Mikedrevguy wrote: |
| First think in the morning, how does the car start? |
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txasylum
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2004
Posts: 389
Location: Boyers, PA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:26 am Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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Thanks. I thought about rebuilding the carb. Have you rebuild your carb and still having the same problem?
| sb001 wrote: |
| txasylum wrote: |
I rebuilt the motor and put it in the car (1973 AK motor 1600). Carb is a 34 Pict-3. It runs great; however, i am having some problems. I run the car, turn it off. It will start easily if I start it back up within a minute or two, but if I let it sit for several minutes (10-15 maybe a bit more), it is hard to start. I have to crank it over and over and over hardly giving it any gas and then it slowly starts.
I wondered about vapor lock, but am not sure. If it is, what can I do about it?
|
Sorry to say txasylum, this is a very common problem on these cars, there are dozens of threads about the same topic- and unfortunately no one really knows what causes it or how to fix it.
I've been having the same issue on my car for months, doesn't seem to be as bad during colder months but once the weather warms back up, it's a pretty prevalent issue. It's weird right? if you just shut the car off long enough to get gas, it will start right back up--but if you go in to do some grocery shopping and then try to restart the car it's terribly difficult. In my case i even have fuel getting siphoned down the carb throat directly from my float bowl! I was hoping maybe changing my carb gasket would fix it but nope, once it got warm here again the issue returns. But i bet if you leave the car for like 45 minutes or more, it will be easy to start again. There's just a "window" of time there, from about 15 minutes to a little over a half hour, where once the car has been really driven and warmed up, it throws that curve ball at you. It's frustrating I know. |
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calvinater
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2014
Posts: 3330
Location: 802 The Pointless Forrest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:40 am Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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Could the lack of vents on your deck lid combined with your 1600 dp engine be causing your engine bay to be asking for more air? Have you tried the tennis ball trick?
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txasylum
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2004
Posts: 389
Location: Boyers, PA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:42 am Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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No, I'm not familiar with it.
| calvinater wrote: |
| Could the lack of vents on your deck lid combined with your 1600 dp engine be causing your engine bay to be asking for more air? Have you tried the tennis ball trick? |
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calvinater
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2014
Posts: 3330
Location: 802 The Pointless Forrest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:04 am Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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Cut a slit in a tennis ball and place it between the decklid and the latch wil allow for a slght gap when lid is closed supplying more air for fan
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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| txasylum wrote: |
Thanks. I thought about rebuilding the carb. Have you rebuild your carb and still having the same problem?
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I actually sent this carb to Volkzbitz who completely refurbished it. I've only taken the carb apart enough to check the float needle valve. I discovered my gasket between the lid of the carb and the main body was the wrong gasket, it was blocking a couple of air passages that vent out around the carb throat, so I replaced it with the correct one. But still doesn't matter- after driving for an extended period (engine fully warmed up), go in to do some grocery shopping or whatever, 15-20 minutes, come back out the car takes several cranks with people staring before it finally starts. But ONLY after driving for a prolonged period first, particularly in stop and go traffic. VERY frustrating, what's more frustrating is no one has found the solution. All sorts of rumors like the metal fuel line coming into the engine bay resting against the intake causing vapor lock from the heat, etc. but I have made sure mine is up away from the intake. Bad float needle valve (I replaced mine but still have the same issue), etc. Next time you drive yours for an extended period of time, especially around town in stop and go traffic, when you get back home and shut the car off immediately go back around to the back of the car and listen closely around the top of the carb, see if you hear a gurgling sound like fuel being sucked down the carb throat like i do. It really stinks that absolutely no one can figure this out, as I said TONS of threads regarding the same issue.
In the interest of full disclosure regarding calvinater's post, I too am running the original solid deck lid on my 69 with a 1600, although mine is a single port.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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wet_bread
Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2015
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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There might not be a known cause, but by checking off the following list on your car, you can almost eliminate the hard start issue entirely. From most important first for a successful hot start:
- Fuel pressure on the lower side of specification for your carb.
- Ensure your needle valve is of high quality, and functioning.
- Park nose downhill.
- Ensure the fuel line does not route anywhere near the #3 exhaust header pipe, and does not receive warm air from the heat exchanger discharge pipe.
- Fuel level on the lower side of specification for your carb.
- Utilize a factory VW/Pierburg fuel pump with cutoff valve.
- Slowly floor the accelerator pedal and hold it there, do not pump.
- Ensure the fuel line is not touching any metal in the engine compartment.
Some of these may be obvious, some maybe not. Addend the list please if I have left anything off.
Some people have an "in-the-lines" percolation issue, so an electric fuel pump helps them. But some people have an "in-the-carb" issue, so no amount of fuel pump tinkering will help them. Both these kinds of folks often get in fights on here about who is correct.
http://www.jainworld.com/literature/story25.htm |
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nelson845
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 59
Location: WASHINGTONVILLE NY 10992
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| txasylum wrote: |
I rebuilt the motor and put it in the car (1973 AK motor 1600). Carb is a 34 Pict-3. It runs great; however, i am having some problems. I run the car, turn it off. It will start easily if I start it back up within a minute or two, but if I let it sit for several minutes (10-15 maybe a bit more), it is hard to start. I have to crank it over and over and over hardly giving it any gas and then it slowly starts.
I wondered about vapor lock, but am not sure. If it is, what can I do about it?
|
Sorry to say txasylum, this is a very common problem on these cars, there are dozens of threads about the same topic- and unfortunately no one really knows what causes it or how to fix it.
I've been having the same issue on my car for months, doesn't seem to be as bad during colder months but once the weather warms back up, it's a pretty prevalent issue. It's weird right? if you just shut the car off long enough to get gas, it will start right back up--but if you go in to do some grocery shopping and then try to restart the car it's terribly difficult. In my case i even have fuel getting siphoned down the carb throat directly from my float bowl! I was hoping maybe changing my carb gasket would fix it but nope, once it got warm here again the issue returns. But i bet if you leave the car for like 45 minutes or more, it will be easy to start again. There's just a "window" of time there, from about 15 minutes to a little over a half hour, where once the car has been really driven and warmed up, it throws that curve ball at you. It's frustrating I know. |
LOL...I thought it was just my bug!..... |
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nelson845
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 59
Location: WASHINGTONVILLE NY 10992
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| txasylum wrote: |
I rebuilt the motor and put it in the car (1973 AK motor 1600). Carb is a 34 Pict-3. It runs great; however, i am having some problems. I run the car, turn it off. It will start easily if I start it back up within a minute or two, but if I let it sit for several minutes (10-15 maybe a bit more), it is hard to start. I have to crank it over and over and over hardly giving it any gas and then it slowly starts.
I wondered about vapor lock, but am not sure. If it is, what can I do about it?
|
Sorry to say txasylum, this is a very common problem on these cars, there are dozens of threads about the same topic- and unfortunately no one really knows what causes it or how to fix it.
I've been having the same issue on my car for months, doesn't seem to be as bad during colder months but once the weather warms back up, it's a pretty prevalent issue. It's weird right? if you just shut the car off long enough to get gas, it will start right back up--but if you go in to do some grocery shopping and then try to restart the car it's terribly difficult. In my case i even have fuel getting siphoned down the carb throat directly from my float bowl! I was hoping maybe changing my carb gasket would fix it but nope, once it got warm here again the issue returns. But i bet if you leave the car for like 45 minutes or more, it will be easy to start again. There's just a "window" of time there, from about 15 minutes to a little over a half hour, where once the car has been really driven and warmed up, it throws that curve ball at you. It's frustrating I know. |
LOL...I thought it was just my bug!..... |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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| nelson845 wrote: |
| sb001 wrote: |
| txasylum wrote: |
I rebuilt the motor and put it in the car (1973 AK motor 1600). Carb is a 34 Pict-3. It runs great; however, i am having some problems. I run the car, turn it off. It will start easily if I start it back up within a minute or two, but if I let it sit for several minutes (10-15 maybe a bit more), it is hard to start. I have to crank it over and over and over hardly giving it any gas and then it slowly starts.
I wondered about vapor lock, but am not sure. If it is, what can I do about it?
|
Sorry to say txasylum, this is a very common problem on these cars, there are dozens of threads about the same topic- and unfortunately no one really knows what causes it or how to fix it.
I've been having the same issue on my car for months, doesn't seem to be as bad during colder months but once the weather warms back up, it's a pretty prevalent issue. It's weird right? if you just shut the car off long enough to get gas, it will start right back up--but if you go in to do some grocery shopping and then try to restart the car it's terribly difficult. In my case i even have fuel getting siphoned down the carb throat directly from my float bowl! I was hoping maybe changing my carb gasket would fix it but nope, once it got warm here again the issue returns. But i bet if you leave the car for like 45 minutes or more, it will be easy to start again. There's just a "window" of time there, from about 15 minutes to a little over a half hour, where once the car has been really driven and warmed up, it throws that curve ball at you. It's frustrating I know. |
LOL...I thought it was just my bug!..... |
Have either of you checked after shutting down the warm engine for fuel dripping down the carb throat.
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Tim Donahoe
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11740
Location: Redding, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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I’ve found on very warm days that if I start the car the way VW said to do it in the Owners Manual, I have little or no problem.
When, after the engine is quite warm, and before 1/2 hour, just barely press the gas pedal while turning the key. When hot, I either don’t press the pedal at all, or, if I’ve gone past the 1/2 hour mark, I slowly press the pedal to the floor and hold it, then turn the key.
Tim
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Starting problems |
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Current wife wants to know why 1970 VW, 1971 VW, and 1988 B2200 start "differently" and sometimes run-on when shutting off; I've tried to explain differences between carbureted vehicles and modern fuel injection vehicles...
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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