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epowell
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:13 am    Post subject: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

I just got my first welder which I don't intend to use much therefore I got an inexpensive flux core machine (which I know is not ideal). However it can't be that bad it flux-core is used for welding bridges and boats.

Anyway, I have been attempting a few weld tests...

- the first problem I have is actually SEEING the work! My helmet is SHADE 10 which should be fine for indoor use. I drew the curtains and turned out the lights which improved visibility a bit but still it is hard going - maybe I will get used to it.

- What I think is the biggest problem I am facing is PENETRATION. It seems like the weld is just sitting on top of the work piece, and the work piece metal is not melting.

This BAREBONES MACHINE is:
230V-60Hz
32A fuse
0.6 - 0.9mm wire
1.6mm - 2.5mm metal thickness welding capacity
31V IDLE RUN VOLTAGE [if this is what I think it is that is very high voltage. I watched a vid where a guy compared voltages for penetration. He used:
14V ---very cold
19V ---ideal
24V ---very hot
.....so if mine is 31V then that is extremely hot.

Looking at my work pieces it seems the metal is getting hot but it seems like the work piece is not melting, and the weld is just piling up.

There are only 2 adjustments on the welder:
1) HOT / LOW heat
2) wire feed speed adjustment knob

I have been having it on HIGH heat, and the wire feed speed turned up to 3/4 full.

Here is a test result... Very rough I know, and I need to work on my gun stroke... but initially I hope to get the machine set up and other things I may be doing wrong worted out.

THANKS
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

Try turning down your wire speed and increasing the amps.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

And youtube has a ton of tutorial videos as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

Agreed. Turn it to hot and put your wire speed at the lowest setting and see if you burn through the metal. Keep fine tuning.

It's pretty common when you start to want to move quickly. Start in one spot, try to look for a puddle to form and then drag (or push) that puddle very slowly. Also make sure you don't have too much wire out to start and that your distance isn't too far from the piece.

I did have a problem with a little 140 Hobart where I wasn't getting enough juice through an extension cord. It would fire up and stay on but the beads looked like what you have. Moved directly to the outlet and it was fine.

There's some good videos on youtube but they always make it look easy! I learned to weld by going to a trade school and simply asking if I could join the class for 3 months. The entire program was over a year but they covered all the basics in 3 months and the classes were like $7 a day plus $100'ish in supplies that you probably already have.
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epowell
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

Yeah I think the power supply might be the problem. It is an old house, and I am running directly into the outlet, but it seems the power is not enough.

I will try a few more... ...see if I can improve it.

THANKS!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

This guy is absolutely awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/user/weldingtipsandtricks

Nothing wrong with a flux core machine. I wore out a cheap harbor freight unit before I moved up to a nice 200 amp machine with a bottle.

I go through times where I have a lot of trouble with vision too. I prefer an auto darkening helmet first and foremost. It makes a huge difference, especially for a beginner. Second, try going the other way with light. I prefer my work space as light as possible. Outdoors is ideal. I have my helmet dialed in to where I can clearly see what I'm doing but I don't burn my eyes. Did that once. You won't do it twice!
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epowell
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

Yeah, another thing with this stupid "helmet" that it came with is that it is only a mask which you have to hold with one hand... seems I need to go buy myself a real helmet (auto-darkening seem ideal). I want to SEE what I am doing and use 2 hands to control the gun.

...anyway, off to test some more in the meantime.

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

Yeah, get yourself an auto darkening helmet for sure. And you're correct, using two hands is far easier. It's pretty much necessary for a beginner. There should be recommended settings for the machine depending on what thickness of material you're using and what wire the machine is running. Start with those settings. Fine tuning usually is not far from the factory recommended settings. I'm personally not a fan of flux core. YMMV.

As mentioned, Weldingtipandtricks on Youtube is a good channel.

It's all about learning to control the puddle. It looks to me like the wire speed is too fast. Also it looks like the wire is coming straight in, or you're too far away from the surface. Try holding the tip of the gun at a slight angle. Try moving the tip closer to the work. When learning to weld, don't worry about making the bead tight... swing that thing out... make fat, wide beads. Once you get the hang of it, then work on narrowing the bead.

Welding is all about practice.

-Kevin
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
Yeah, another thing with this stupid "helmet" that it came with is that it is only a mask which you have to hold with one hand... seems I need to go buy myself a real helmet (auto-darkening seem ideal). I want to SEE what I am doing and use 2 hands to control the gun.

...anyway, off to test some more in the meantime.

Thanks!


Holding a mask w/ one hand is the pits. x3 on the auto-darkening helmet!
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

not enough heat, too much wire feed appears to be problem. also avoid welding on that wood block, the heat of welding may cause fumes from the wood (absorbed water, wood resins, wood combustion products) to contaminate the weld. think clean clean clean. use a steel table top for welding a wire screen is also good as it wont suck up heat like a solid metal top might, fire bricks (that are dry) are also very good for supporting weld work pieces. but wood as shown for the part your welding is not good, so raise the part up on some bricks, steel scrap or what ever to keep the wood from containiating thw weld.

at this point, the problem appears to be not enough heat, but once you get that right, and the weld penatrates good, that wood surface will become a possible source of contamination as it too gets hot.

if your home circuit cant supply enough power, that can be a problem, you need to check your eelctric service rating, make sure your delievering the full power to the welder, check the amps drawn verses amps supplied.

note I met some folks from check republic while camping this weekend, nice folks, they like to camp big time but say forests in europe are less remote than in america. they amazed at the fact you can travel backpackkng for days in america with no outposts, cabins or huts too be seen. they said in europe near every trail or mountain peak has a climbers hut of cabin of some sort where hot drinks and food can be had. nice talking with them.


anyway good luck on the welding, practice makes perfect.

also a good helment with a large view port is nice, auto darkening is good also. make sure you get a helment with proper darkening. eye burns creep up on you, they are rarely painful at first, but will cuase pain hours later, so use care, just cause it dont hurt dont mean damage is done to the eye. dont risk eye damage, always use protection of the eyes, beware of reflected light also, make sure bystanders are protected, even if looking away they can be harmed if reflected light gets in the eyes. UV need not be bright to cause harm.

also have good ventalation, fumes can be bad for health, and have a fire extingusher ready, and beware of sparks and glowing red balls of metal that can roll off to under a work bench, under a rag, into a pile of saw dust, where the flame may simmer for hours until a fire breaks out. dont weld in your wood work shop if there is lots of flamable stuff on the floor.


good luck, and remember too that practice welds should be done on same material type and thickness as you will use on the actual project. changes in material thickness and type may require different weld settings and technique.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

Flux core gets a bad wrap, Im not sure if people jist dont understand how to use it well or what. Just last week I welded up two 12" piles .375 wall and two 12" ~50# per foot I beams, they both passed inspection on the first go round. Id post a pic but my photobucket account os a pain in the rear. Anyway..

Whats happening is your wire is melting and pooling up on top of the metal, of course we want the wire to create a puddle of molten steel, and for the wire to melt into said puddle. So yes first try upping for voltage (any idea on the amperage).

Also can the polarity be changed on your machine?

Constant current or constant voltage switch?

Make SURE your peice is grounded well, setting it on top of a grounded work bench isnt good enough.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

Chainsaw wrote:
Flux core gets a bad wrap, Im not sure if people jist dont understand how to use it well or what. Just last week I welded up two 12" piles .375 wall and two 12" ~50# per foot I beams, they both passed inspection on the first go round. Id post a pic but my photobucket account os a pain in the rear. Anyway..

Whats happening is your wire is melting and pooling up on top of the metal, of course we want the wire to create a puddle of molten steel, and for the wire to melt into said puddle. So yes first try upping for voltage (any idea on the amperage).

Also can the polarity be changed on your machine?

Constant current or constant voltage switch?

Make SURE your peice is grounded well, setting it on top of a grounded work bench isnt good enough.



For autobody work flux core gets a bad rap once shielding gas welding is tried. flux wire welding is more difficult, more sensitive to technique than gas shielded. in many ways gas shielded is superior for welding. in some jobs this difference may be less or more important. welding thick sections verse thin sections, other consideration is wind speed, too much wind and the shielding gas can be blown away, at least with gas shielding, you can turn up the gas flow, with flux wire, your stuck with what is in the wire for shielding.
the dig advantage to flux core is lower initial purchase cost, and a less bulky unit, other than that gas shielded has near all the advantages.its not that people dont understand it, its simply that gas shielded is often superior verses flux core welding.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

Spend the money on a really good auto helmet. Harbor freight is not very good and you only have one set of eyes. Find you local welding shop and ask them for good protection. Wish I did when I first started welding.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

Except on the CO2 bottle you can't use it on a windy day.
The gas shield surrounding the welding area will get blown away.
This is where stick welding kicks in.

The OP suggested that bridges etc gets welded with flux core wire.
That's not true at all.
A welder would laugh at that.
Flux coated rods at 300 amps would be correct.

Speed, angle, amps, wire speed are all key here.
You have what is called & known as pigeon shit welding going on there.

That welder doesn't produce enough amps to be welding anything heavier than sheet metal.

You have the wire speed way too fast, you're moving too fast, and you don't have enough amps to get the metal to pool, and work that pool along the welding area.
The idea is to get both pieces of metal ( old & new) to pool together.

One item that will be a big pain will be that if you want to make another pass, you will have to break out the chipping hammer and get all of the flux off of the welded area, wire brush it, then make the second pass.

Too much work to get a good clean weld done right with that flux core wire.

That welder will not get hot enough to repair that suspension arm spring saddle area.

The weld will only lay on top of the metal, the welder won't produce enough heat to be pooling any metal together.

Better get over to you tube and do some serious studying.
Better send that welder back for a credit on a stouter CO 2 welder that cranks out some amperage.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

Says he, " I think,,, the biggest problem I am facing is PENETRATION". I suggest viagra for that. (;>)
But another consideration, once you move off the table and are inside or under the van, is to keep two things within arms reach: a fire extinguisher and a vessel with water. The extinguisher to kill an actual accidental flame you have somehow generated And maybe two sources of water: First a squeeze bottle to direct a stream on any area where your technique is not in control of your universe and the heat is getting to materials you don't want heated. But also a pan from which to draw handfuls of water to splash on a target or to pour in copious amounts in case of emergency. Do keep in mind that rapid cooling may result in a small increase of brittleness, but with mild steel sheet metal this is not a major concern, the concern is to avoid accidental fire. Especially if there's grease on the reverse side of the area where you're welding, be careful.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

As stated above it mainly looks like too fast of wire speed. I think that another misconception is that people think that you dont need good lighting to see while welding. Try getting a halogen work light and really light up the area you are working on. Without lighting you are only able to see a very little bit of the seam right next to the arc.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

I tried flux core for a while with bad results, after buying a shielding gas tank and swapping to regular wire the results improved dramatically on the very first bead.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

I always thought Flex core was used for very deep penetration on thick steal. Like 1/4 and above steal welding. Is that correct?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

No. The flux when burned creates an oxygen free shield around the arc. A stick welder does this also due to the coating of flux on the outside of the rod.
Terry hit it there with the large stick welder for thick outdoor steel welding. Though a large wire feed can put down a pretty heavy bead.
To OP, sometimes the combination of an off brand welder and the power supply at your site will make it darn near impossible to get a good bead. My go to small welder is a lincoln weldpak 100. Ive got countless hours on this welder and know it well. Ive taken i to many other locations and a couple of those were challenging to get my usual good results.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: Welding: learning how to... Reply with quote

Hi Ed.

This website really helped me with MIG welding


http://www.mig-welding.co.uk


very helpful people on the forums.

Neil.
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