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Red Hot Heat Riser
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James Watt
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

Just an update. So my bus is up and running again after i refitted the manifold (with new gasket and no RTV!) and have got her tuned up by my local mechanic.

The engine is running alot better now. It starts on all four cylinders and it is idling much better once the engine is hot and seems to be about 900-1000 rpm which is alot slower than before which is good.

However, i still think i have a vacuum leak and i am now suspecting the brake booster or possibly the non return valve.

When the engine is idling, if i blip the brake pedal then the rpms jump a little quickly and then settle again, not much but you can definetly hear it. And then it is still doing the same thing that this engine has always done, with various different carbs and before and after a engine rebuild which is the engine wants to stall when goin down hill under heavy braking.

Would it be a stupid guess that is the vacuum seal in the brake booster is damaged, when i blip the brakes then i am sending a small burst of air down the pipe and into the engine, therefore increasing the rpm momentarily. And when under heavy continuous braking the air is streaming in through the brake booster from atmosphere into the manifold and stalling the engine?? Is that stupid or does that sound pluasable?

I've done some forum searching and found similiar posts about this issue with bugs and people poiting to maybe the fuel, carb or electriacal issues but I'm fairly confident that these are not my problem, or at least not the main one!!

As always, much obliged for the help.
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James Watt
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:55 am    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

Thanks Guys,

I got the manifold back off and the RTV removed ok, I was not so hard to do.

Interestingly the compression ridge on the metal gasket was not squashed at all, even though it had had nipped the nuts up quite tight. The RTV had filled the hole Smile

I'm awaiting new clamps which hopefully fit the new boots better and will go for a dry assembly next time of the gaskets.
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

https://www.amazon.ca/Permatex-81878-Maximum-Temperature-Silicone/dp/B0002UEOPA

Not recommended for gasoline.
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James Watt
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:24 am    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

Thanks guys,

The engine is still out and everything off so i'll just go and remove the manifold and do it right.

Has anybody ever noticed that the old VW clamps are to big in diameter to fit some of the new boots? i bought silicone ones, the ID of them is ok but the OD must be less in way of the clamp.
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

I think the VW-Rescource sealant recommendation comes from the old paper style intake gaskets. I had a set of those, and they got brittle with age and cracked after only a few years. They were dismal to clean off, even with the engine out. The metal ones are easy to remove, and seal perfectly fine on their own, so I recommend those, dry, now.

The manifolds and gaskets can be done with the engine in, but it requires finesse and care.

14 ft-lbs is plenty, a buddy of mine cracked his by over-tightening last year and I had a wonderful time figuring out why the car wouldn't run…

Good luck!
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

James Watt wrote:
Hi Busdaddy,

Thanks for the help.

Yeah, I know this is the right thing to do so I have a job for tomorrow morning now.

Does anyone know if RTV comes off ok?


I am known to use copper silicone on my Type 4 in lieu of gaskets. I apply a thin smear of silicone and then assemble the manifold runner and torque it down lightly. I then remove it again and clean off any excess silicone that has been squished into the ports followed by reinstalling the manifold runner once more.

With a raised gasket and decent surfaces silicone should not be needed.
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James Watt
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

Hi Busdaddy,

Thanks for the help.

Yeah, I know this is the right thing to do so I have a job for tomorrow morning now.

Does anyone know if RTV comes off ok?
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:09 am    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

Poorly fitting clamps and tape sounds like a recipe for a burnt valve, now's the time to do it right, that job is no fun on the side of the road.
Excess goop on gaskets squeezes out and blocks ports, in other locations the excess breaks off and plugs up oil passages, a tiny smear is OK but anything thicker than seethrough isn't good. The bump can face up or down, it doesnt matter, but now that you've torqued the ends the bump is squished so maybe get some new gaskets as well. Off the top of my head an 8mm fastener torques to 14-16 'lbs, consult your Bentley to confirm that.
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:58 am    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

I'm hoping for a little advice.

Last night i refitted my intake manifold parts. In my rush I think i have done two things which were a bit rough and now i am questioning myself.

1. I found a little crack at the lips of one of the old boots so i bought two new silicone ones. Unfortunately the VW clamps for these were too big and when i snug them up all the way they weren't fully tight. So i reused the old clamps and then wrapped then in silicone tape Shocked

2. i read in VW-Resource to smear a thin layer of sealer/gasket maker on both sides of the cylinder gaskets. I did this, probably more than a thin layer too. I have since read that most people seem against this practice.

So my question is do you think i should pull the lot again, get new clamps to suit my silicone boots and fit new gaskets without any sealer?

I don't want to do the job twice but i definetly don't want to pull the engine again.

PS. on the metal cylinder head gasket, which way does the raised bump go??

PPS. How tight do you tighten the manifold elbow nuts?
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James Watt
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

Thanks Busdaddy!

I found there is a seal but I think it had been put in from the wrong side (flywheel side) and looks like it may fall down there anytime so I am going to try to remove it altogether.
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

Thats where the TDC sensor goes for the VW computer diagnostic system. Leaving it open won't hurt, but if you feel you must plug it a cork or rubber plug or maybe something from an electrical supply store will do fine.
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:47 am    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

I've been busy cleaning my dissembled engine and parts and getting things ready to go back together.

I found out I have no cooling flaps inside the fan shroud and also was missing the hoover bracket on the oil cooling and any form of seal around the oil cooler tin work!

Anyway, I found there is a hole in the engine case, near the top right hand side not to far away from the gearbox bell house mounting bolt.

This hole will allow air into the gearbox / engine bell housing region, is that normal? or should it be plugged?

I've attached a photo, not my case but it has the same hole!


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

Brian wrote:
Wildthings wrote:

My guess would be for your power brakes. How much force does is take to apply your brakes?

Pictures always help Wink


It looks like the brakes are connected, you can see the anti pulse valve up in the first picture


And you can see the hose with the bolt in it too Wink
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=675623&start=60
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:

My guess would be for your power brakes. How much force does is take to apply your brakes?

Pictures always help Wink


It looks like the brakes are connected, you can see the anti pulse valve up in the first picture
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

James Watt wrote:

Are you working F or C ?


Good 'ol Farenhate. 388° F, so 189° C. I post most of my temp readings in Yankee Units because my pictures get used in other forums on here, which are largely based in the U.S.

A power coating shop will be able to blast some media through the heat riser to clean it fairly easily, then they can blast it so you can paint it. Cool

Good luck!
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

James Watt wrote:


3. Intake manifold elbow - One of the elbows has a strange little stub of pipe connected to it with a short length of old fuel pipe and blanking bolt in the other end. What would this have been for? a vacuum line for something?


My guess would be for your power brakes. How much force does is take to apply your brakes?

Pictures always help Wink
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

1. Yes.
2. If the old ones are good might as well. The new ones suck.
3. Two piece throttle positioner. If just leave it as is until you get the rest of that system in place.

I think it's a right of passage for Type 1 owners to clear out a heat riser.
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James Watt
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

I've taken out my engine and stripped off the parts.

couple of questions.

1. Heat risers are not blocked but it takes a really hard blow to get air out the other side, does this mean they are likely to be blocked a bit?

2. Intake manifold boots - The ones that came off are original VW parts (029 299 477. They seem to be in ok condition and quality wise are better than the silicone replacements i bought. Which should i refit?

3. Intake manifold elbow - One of the elbows has a strange little stub of pipe connected to it with a short length of old fuel pipe and blanking bolt in the other end. What would this have been for? a vacuum line for something?
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James Watt
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:29 am    Post subject: Re: Red Hot Heat Riser Reply with quote

Hi Robbie,

Thanks very much for the message. We may have a IR heat gun at my work, I will check and see.

Are you working F or C ?

James.
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