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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22416 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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One interesting thing to note about these early ones. Ive made comment on how these weigh more than the later ones. Other than the obvious differences like the "extra" stuff on them, these are constructed with older tech for sure. Its the difference between a 1950 Plymouth 4 door and a 1972 Camero. Everything is over engineered in this unit as apposed to what was sufficient on the later ones. Just an interesting side note.
Oh and made it to 2 pages - boom bitch! _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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Terminatez Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2015 Posts: 340 Location: Sun Valley, CA
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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Do these being over engineered make them better than the later ones or less reliable because of it?
Whats your opinion? _________________ 1972 Westfalia P30 hardtop Campmobile [On-going Restoration]
aeromech wrote: |
I don't think I've ever seen an engine in worse shape. |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22416 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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Terminatez wrote: |
Do these being over engineered make them better than the later ones or less reliable because of it?
Whats your opinion? |
Neither. The lack of parts and the complexity based on the times tech makes them a harder rebuild. Its all about the diaphragms. If thats gets figured out in the metering portion then they are fine to rebuild. There seems to be as many of these out there as the later ones. It just takes people willing to figure out the resto puzzle is all. _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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ratherb-buggin Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2005 Posts: 985 Location: Shawnee, KS
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Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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You're doing a great job on this Jason, thank you!! I'll be one proud mofo to run this! Thank you!! |
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bartul1981 Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2016 Posts: 40
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Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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Great job!!!!
Is this 6 or 8mm?
you know what is the rubber buffer size?
Thanks
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22416 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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Its time to get back into this early BN4 thread. Poor John has been waiting patiently for his gray baby bomb from me.
I made a new work space on the other side of the garage that allows me to get to all my smalls. Gas heaters have lots of little bits and pieces and I have lots of them.
Im also excited that Angleofattack is making regulator diaphragms because I have 3 other heaters behind this one that are in great shape. So Ill be integrating them into an upcoming build.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=727428
With the fuel pumps, I think all the pumps Ive pulled apart, cleaned and replaced one or two of the diaphragm with the material I have, all work. With the 2 nos ones I have, the count is up to maybe 7 total good usable pumps. Ill have to check.
In any case its that time of year where the interest in the FB site, Chinese Dizel here and random ?? from You tube vids warrants getting back on it. People seem to always wait till last minute to put that heat in the bus.
So stay tuned and we'll see what starts to cook.
_________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22416 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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Yep. Its getting colder out. Every year without fail there is a mass influx of people wanting to keep warm in their VW. More often than not they gravitate to the gas heater. With the advent of the cheap Chinese heater and its popularity growing, gas heater interest and restoration is higher than ever.
As said previously, Jeronimo - Angleofattack has 3D printed a replacement pressure regulator diaphragm and graciously sent me one to compare to the NOS one we have for this early BN4 build for ratherb-buggin.
With my new station set up for tinkering, I pulled out all the early BN4 stuff to get cracking again on the rebuild.
Some shots side by side of what we are dealing with - two pressure regulators being taken apart. The NOS one is on the left. Curiously it did not come with the electromagnet needed to operate it. So I took it from the one on the right - good use and working one. I will be putting the new 3D printed diaphragm into the unit on the right as well as putting yet another electromagnet into it from some other spares.
Lots of parts swapping to essentially get the NOS one ready with an electromagnet and putting together a good used one with the new 3D printed diaphragm.
Upon close inspection, the nos and repop are very close to flexibility. Lord only knows exactly how the nos one should be as it is a 40 ish-year-old new part.
Next on the docket will be to pull the unit apart and repaint it. There are some scratches from moving around from Seattle to San Diego that I don't like. _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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Angleofattack Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2017 Posts: 31 Location: Atlanta, Ga, USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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Looking great!!!! Glad you got the prototype... I just got back from a 10 day trip and first thing I did was to inspect the diaphragm material I left immersed in fuel. Looking good in terms of texture, resistance and flexibility, but as expected, it increased volume by about 8%.
I suspect this increase in volume is excessive for the current design thickness and because the diaphragm can not expand outwards because it is clamped, it expands inwards, creating a force that adds to the spring, therefore it will burn rich even with the spring screw all out.
I will try to print a thinner version and give it a try in my heater today. I will also print a couple more for Jason and Jay. I need help to improve the design.
Another thought I am entertaining is to print them at 92% scale so that a pre-soak would expand them to correct size. |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22416 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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Angleofattack wrote: |
Looking great!!!! Glad you got the prototype... I just got back from a 10 day trip and first thing I did was to inspect the diaphragm material I left immersed in fuel. Looking good in terms of texture, resistance and flexibility, but as expected, it increased volume by about 8%.
I suspect this increase in volume is excessive for the current design thickness and because the diaphragm can not expand outwards because it is clamped, it expands inwards, creating a force that adds to the spring, therefore it will burn rich even with the spring screw all out.
I will try to print a thinner version and give it a try in my heater today. I will also print a couple more for Jason and Jay. I need help to improve the design.
Another thought I am entertaining is to print them at 92% scale so that a pre-soak would expand them to correct size. |
Maybe a weaker spring would also help the rich burning? _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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Angleofattack Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2017 Posts: 31 Location: Atlanta, Ga, USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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No, I would not change the spring, it is a question of getting the diaphragm not to produce excessive force, and if it gets out of range, it is easier to re calibrate by adding thin washers to the outer cup screws.
I have done this with very good results. |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22416 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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Slow week on the Eber. Just ended up repainting the shell twice. The first time it was so hot outside, like 85f the paint dried in the air and left a grit on it. Sanded that off and painted again when it was cool. Looks better then when I did it months ago. 😎
_________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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Angleofattack Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2017 Posts: 31 Location: Atlanta, Ga, USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:56 am Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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My latest version of the diaphragm is installed, and the BN4 running like in its best days.
I calibrated it to 20cc / 2 mins and the exhaust was showing too much black smoke. Just by hand and looking at the exhaust, I went down on the mixture until smoke disappeared. But I am sure I am at less than 20cc/2mins. I am guessing at 17cc. Not really sure why the factory specs do not work right... maybe the type of fuel used in the old days? Maybe my fan/combustion chamber are not creating the right air flow? No idea, but it runs so good. And starts every time as expected.
What a satisfaction after two years of messing with it... so many hours dedicated to this can!
Lets now see how much time my diaphragm material/design works...
I can make them so cheap, if they last one winter, I am happy. If they last two winters, mission accomplished. |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22416 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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Angleofattack wrote: |
My latest version of the diaphragm is installed, and the BN4 running like in its best days.
I calibrated it to 20cc / 2 mins and the exhaust was showing too much black smoke. Just by hand and looking at the exhaust, I went down on the mixture until smoke disappeared. But I am sure I am at less than 20cc/2mins. I am guessing at 17cc. Not really sure why the factory specs do not work right... maybe the type of fuel used in the old days? Maybe my fan/combustion chamber are not creating the right air flow? No idea, but it runs so good. And starts every time as expected.
What a satisfaction after two years of messing with it... so many hours dedicated to this can!
Lets now see how much time my diaphragm material/design works...
I can make them so cheap, if they last one winter, I am happy. If they last two winters, mission accomplished. |
Im looking forward to it. I should be into test mode on the diaphragm as well after this one gets done.
This one's coming back together nicely.
_________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22416 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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All the wires have been chased, the bits cleaned and assembled. Had to use the wiring diagram and even an unrestored unit to see where all the pieces went. No wonders they simplified this There is a lot going on
Then the moment of truth, It turned on and worked.
I need to take the OG banjo fittings apart and put new fuel line on, then we see if she fires
_________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22416 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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After confirming that all the systems were working, I pulled all the old braided fuel lines apart, too the banjo fittings off so that new fuel lines could be used. Kind of a pain in the ass to undo as the OG fuel lines are so well put together.
With the fuel lines on and the metering pump regulator set, I poured in some Camping Fuel and fired her off. With a couple of leaks from the filter fixed, she otherwise fired quick and ran well.
I was able to hook up an OG switch as well to see how she would run. The switch is pretty cool. I'm still kinda taken aback at how this whole set up is chunkier than the later BN4's. With the mechanical pumps and the overall weight of the unit itself and even the switch, it just gives an air of quality built for some reason They definitely don't build like this anymore.
Next Ill be painting up the rest of the ducting and sending John his complete ready to use unit.
Link
_________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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Angleofattack Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2017 Posts: 31 Location: Atlanta, Ga, USA
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Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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Bravo Jason!
Did you calibrate the pressure regulator or just assumed it was still set?
Jerome |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22416 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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Angleofattack wrote: |
Bravo Jason!
Did you calibrate the pressure regulator or just assumed it was still set?
Jerome |
Not yet. Can't find the cc beakers and I ran out of fuel. Calibration clarification to come. _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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TomWesty Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007 Posts: 3482 Location: Wyoming,USA
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Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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Nice work! That is some serious Mad Scientist stuff. _________________ If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music! |
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Lionhart94010 Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2005 Posts: 1417 Location: SF Bay Area / Silicon Valley / So Cal
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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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Great Post!
Can I ask what replacement fuel hose you used, and did you use any small hose clamps ?
My BN4 wokds but I am leary of the old fuel lines and there is a bit of fuel staining on the outside of the cloth braided hose after it runs a while... _________________ Current VWs 71 T2 Westy SO-72/6(Miami), 71 Crew Cab, 2015 GSW TDI
Other owned VW’s 59, 68 1500s, 69 & 71 Bug’s; 72 & 73 S-Bug’s; 67 Westy, 67 Deluxe, Other 71 DC, 72 KG GT that now lives in Australia, 12 JSW TDI, 2015 GSW TDI, 2023 Tiguan
VW technical information sights
thesamba - www.ratwell.com - www.shoptalkforums.com/ - www.vw-resource.com - http://www.type2.com/
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/ - www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm |
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Ollie W Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2004 Posts: 797 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: Early BN4 Eberspächer Restoration Bay Window Bus 68-72 |
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Hello all,
Any help getting my fuel pump going? https://youtu.be/ssTqL6466Og
Thanks |
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