Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism
Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
furgo
Samba Member


Joined: September 06, 2016
Posts: 373

furgo is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 5:04 am    Post subject: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm trying to understand and possibly fix the locking mechanism for the Westfalia bench/bed on my late bay. That is, what fastens the seat lid when the assembly is in the bench position.

Looking at this picture from the eche_bus thread, I seem to be missing the silver bracket that is attached to the front bottom of the lid by two screws.

The bracket seems to mate a holder on the bench wall, which I do have.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I've seen a blog post about mounting an aftermarket locking mechanism that is quite neat, and I've been wondering if the stock bracket actually locks the lid.

I've got a couple of questions regarding the bracket:

What's its common name or part number? (I've looked at the Greg Lindquist Parts Pictorial, but there I only found the mating part which I already have - "#15 - Steel (Stock) Guide Cover for Lock: Bottom Cushion 231.070.238")
Is it really a locking mechanism or more of a guide for closing the lid?
If it's simple enough, is it worth attempting a DIY build, or should I be better off with the aftermarket locking mechanism? If not, does anyone have the dimensions or pictures?

Thanks.
_________________
'79 Westy, P22 interior, FI 2.0 l Federal, GE engine
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BayCreamPuff
Samba Member


Joined: August 10, 2015
Posts: 699
Location: Oakland, CA
BayCreamPuff is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism Reply with quote

Not sure what any of it is actually called, but I just refer to the whole thing as the bench latch.

Mine was missing the guide cover and I actually bought that chrome one from Greg (he had already sold the other one).

So the whole thing is made up of 3 distinct parts

1. Guide and catch plate from greg's pictures which is mounted to the face of the bench.
2. spring-loaded latch that is mounted to the back and sits inside the hole.
3. L bracket mounted to the bottom of the seat that locks the seat in place.

Here are some photos of mine.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
CreamPuff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
furgo
Samba Member


Joined: September 06, 2016
Posts: 373

furgo is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism Reply with quote

That's fantastic, thank you BayCreamPuff for the awesome pictures!

Bench latch sounds like a good name to me. So it seems I've got 1 and 2 and I'm only missing the L bracket.

Given that a) it looks like quite a robust assembly b) the two screws that would hold the L bracket are still in there, I'm guessing that the PO removed it on purpose. I'm wondering why. Is the mechanism difficult to operate, or does it make it a pain to lift the bench seat?

In any case, would someone have the dimensions for the L bracket? I can guess some of them from my bench, but it would be great to have some idea of what at least know what W, L, H, D1 and d2 are. Also the thickness.

Here's a quick sketch of what I'll probably have to end up creating, as I could not find the part anywhere:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thanks!
_________________
'79 Westy, P22 interior, FI 2.0 l Federal, GE engine
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
AJPinVT
Samba Member


Joined: September 08, 2016
Posts: 10
Location: Vermont
AJPinVT is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism Reply with quote

I'm looking to fabricate this latch as well. Wondering if anyone can provide the basic measurements (L,W, H, D1) furgo has requested. Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BayCreamPuff
Samba Member


Joined: August 10, 2015
Posts: 699
Location: Oakland, CA
BayCreamPuff is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism Reply with quote

I'd be happy to take some measurements. I'll probably have some time this weekend.
_________________
CreamPuff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sage79
Samba Member


Joined: September 13, 2008
Posts: 414
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Sage79 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism Reply with quote

Just measured from my '79 Westy:

t=3 mm (since we're German here)
W=20.1
L=30.4
H=34.6
D1=11.3 (large latching hole)
D2=6.4 (2 screw holes)
d1=5.3
d2=9.4
d3=5.3
d4=6.6
d5=19.7
R1 just guess
_________________
Dirk
'79 Westy 2.0FI
'73 Sportsmobile 1.7dual Solex 003Auto - now my daughter's
'77 delux 2.0FI 090Auto - now my son's
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
furgo
Samba Member


Joined: September 06, 2016
Posts: 373

furgo is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism Reply with quote

Awesome, thanks so much!

Coincidentally, I just got a piece of 2mm thick steel yesterday and I was going to have a go at guessing the dimensions and cutting/bending to size over the weekend.

Having the right sizes has just made the whole thing a lot easier!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
'79 Westy, P22 interior, FI 2.0 l Federal, GE engine
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vwwestyman Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 2842
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
vwwestyman is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism Reply with quote

As I imagine you've surmised, it doesn't lock. Just latch.

If the PO took it off, it might be because it wasn't lined up just right anymore and made latching/unlatching difficult. On mine, sometimes it doesn't line up perfect and I have to push the little button to make it latch.

Could also be that the screws pulled out and it was simply lost. Maybe it is still around down there in some tiny crevice under the seat!
_________________
Dave Cook

Stuartzickefoose wrote:
I'm gonna punch vwwestyman then shake his hand when I meet him.

notchboy wrote:
Ill just punch you in the face. Wink


1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
furgo
Samba Member


Joined: September 06, 2016
Posts: 373

furgo is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism Reply with quote

vwwestyman wrote:
As I imagine you've surmised, it doesn't lock. Just latch.

If the PO took it off, it might be because it wasn't lined up just right anymore and made latching/unlatching difficult. On mine, sometimes it doesn't line up perfect and I have to push the little button to make it latch.


Ah, thanks. These will also be things I'll watch out for when I do the new installation.

vwwestyman wrote:
Could also be that the screws pulled out and it was simply lost. Maybe it is still around down there in some tiny crevice under the seat!


I'm sure. These things seem to appear right after you've either bought or fabricated a replacement. I recently found a small treasure chest from the PO with the original shift knob, NOS points and spark plugs, all of which I had just replaced. The engine compartment also seems to be a black hole for long lost bits and pieces, I've noticed.
_________________
'79 Westy, P22 interior, FI 2.0 l Federal, GE engine
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
DougB
Samba Member


Joined: January 09, 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Falls Church, Virginia, USA
DougB is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism Reply with quote

Thanks a ton for that bracket diagram pic! I was missing mine as well, but fabricated something that works OK a few months ago...will definitely make one according to this diagram, though.

Thanks again! Smile
_________________
'75 Campmobile (former tin-top now with a SpaceRoof)
'73 Fastback
'52 BMW R67/2
'67 BMW R60/2
'55 Puch SGS250
http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-23040.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Gallery Classifieds Feedback
AJPinVT
Samba Member


Joined: September 08, 2016
Posts: 10
Location: Vermont
AJPinVT is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism Reply with quote

Perfect...thanks a bunch! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
furgo
Samba Member


Joined: September 06, 2016
Posts: 373

furgo is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:24 am    Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism Reply with quote

While finishing off bus projects, I managed to do the latch this weekend. Here's how it was put together and what it looks like. Hopefully it can be useful to others who found themselves with this missing piece too.

First, the (edited) microfiche that shows the complete bench mechanism, highlighted in blue. Our bracket is (A10) on the right, attached by two 4.8x19 mm screws (11) to the bottom of the rear seat.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Right from the start I must say I cheated: I found a metal plate with about the right dimensions with an already punched latch hole. I don't have a drill bit for that diameter, so that came in really handy.

I chose to use stainless steel, as I thought one less place to worry about rust. Thickness wasn't 3 mm as the original, but 2mm, wich is close and solid enough.

Here's the plate, before getting started. I used a hacksaw to do all the cuts, as for me it's quicker to cut 2 mm steel by hand than with a dremel or similar.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The first cut:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The bracket cut to width, latch end radius marked. Notice I did not cut to length yet, for two reasons:

Being opportunistic and preempting a possible failure, I left the other side with the punched hole there, so that I can reuse it in case the first try goes belly up
I want to have a long lever for bending the bracket to 90 later

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Rough cutting the latch end radius:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After some filing it looks much better:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Removing scratches, vise marks and generally flattening at the diamond stones.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Ready to bend it. Not being a metal worker, this was the part I was most worried about. I didn't know how easy it would be to bend, whether it would work out, or if the bend radius would be small enough for producing a usable bracket.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And it worked! I started up pulling towards me with a piece of wood behind the bracket, mostly pressing around the elbow area of the metal piece. I then finished it off and reduced the bend radius by hitting the elbow with my nylon hammer.

For not knowing if it would work at all, I was pretty happy with the result. It's not a fully square corner, and you can see the metal stress marks a bit, but the bend radius is small enough. The bracket is close enough to 90 for the tolerances involved.

In hinsight, I could have annealed the steel to make it softer just to do the bend. But cold bending worked just as well and it was quicker.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Rough cutting the radius for the screws end of the bracket:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Close enough to square:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The final bracket after having drilled the holes for the screw and some polishing. Note: if you attempt to drill through steel, do get a proper drill bit, or you'll be drilling a long time...

I did not manage to get to the hardware store before they closed, so the 4.8x19 mm screws and the final fitting will have to wait until next week. I'll report back with more pics then.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
'79 Westy, P22 interior, FI 2.0 l Federal, GE engine
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
LiveJay
Samba Member


Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 126
Location: Nipomo, CA
LiveJay is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:51 am    Post subject: Re: Late Bay Westfalia bench locking mechanism Reply with quote

Great finish! Nicely done.
_________________
Jay

'73 Beetle
'73 Bus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2016, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB