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1966 7-seater/camper: engine dilemma and other fixes (pic heavy)
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mr. lang
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject: 1966 7-seater/camper: engine dilemma and other fixes (pic heavy) Reply with quote

Hello and welcome to my thread !!

This thread will be about my split bus and all the little things I have to do to keep it on the road or to bring it back to it's original state.
This will be more interesting for the purist but everybody else is also very welcome.
Feel free to give comments.
Feel free to criticize me.
And please correct me, if I do anything wrong.
Don't hesitate, even negative comments are very welcome.


I own my bus since 22 years and never had another one. I did restore her 5 years ago from the front to the back.
So I do lack sometimes in experience, which I try to compensate by reading the various VW workshop manuals and parts books I have.
I'm still learning, but maybe I can give back my small knowledge, so somebody else can learn from me, even if it is how not to do something.

I'm very slow in typing english sentences, I have to check out the dictionary very often, so from my second post on, I will let the pictures speak instead.
I will reduce them in size, so that the site will not load too slow. If you wish a picture in high resolution or a detailed picture, let me know.
And I do not know all the colloquialisms (hehe, dictionaries help) for the little details, so I will write the names from the part lists instead.

Why do I post in the samba and not in a German forum? The Samba gave me so much information, when I did restore my bus 5 years ago and I was not able to find a useful German forum or it had a horrible software running.


These are the few pictures I have of the bus:
original stock interior:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


camping interior:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


more pictures will follow later.

my engine dilemma:

original to my bus H engine from 1966
The bus came with the original to the bus engine. I did abuse this engine and the bus as well and did never pay much attention (well, I was young, this was 15 or so yours ago).
I had to learn it the hard way, that the service interval is shorter then with modern cars.

Long story short, after I did a valve job, the thread on one valve adjuster did strip, valve adjuster did unscrew, valve dropped.
I had this other engine where I did borrow one piston and one cylinder. After 20000 miles, the oil pressure lamp did signal during idle, that something was wrong.
I did tear down the engine and oh well, the borrowed piston had 83.5mm diameter instead of the 83.0 this engine had. I didn't had manuals and obviously did not pay much attention. The piston was so out of balance, that it did smash the main bearings. The #2 bearing already lost particles and #1 was shot too
This engine is sitting since many many years and waiting for it's resurrection.
Pictures will eventually follow.

VW exchange beetle H engine from 1967
I did buy this engine with the bus. It was unmolested and when I did restore the bus 5 years ago, I did fix this engine instead of the original to the bus engine, because the damage to this engine case was way less, then to the original engine.
This engine is very odd, because it does have a lot of VW refurbished parts. 16.5mm oil piston, shorter gland nut, 83.5mm pistons and so on.
This engine did run very well the last 5 years, but recently I did found particles in the oil and a nice cover of sludge smear on the drain plate.
It does run awesome but this needs to be addressed, before it is too late.
Here a picture during fuel pressure test:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

So I will pull this engine soon and will mount the following candidate.

original to my beetle F engine from 1969, model year 1970
I'm in a hurry. We want to go camping at the end this month and I need a engine.
This one is also sitting since 15 years. I did pull it in running condition to fix the chassis of my beetle. The chassis was never finished and therefore the engine never brought back to service. The car is stored in a barn since then, while the engine was sitting in my shop.
This engine is as well unmolested with all the model year 1970 parts on it.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here we go.
Things I have to do for the camping trip to be a success:
Bring the beetle F engine back to live, pull the exchange H engine, drive around with the beetle F engine.
time left: 20 days (Cross your fingers, this will be enough)

Very Happy
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Last edited by mr. lang on Wed May 10, 2017 3:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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mr. lang
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: my engine dilemma and other fixes diary (ultra pic heavy) Reply with quote

original to my beetle F engine from 1969, model year 1970 modified for 1966 split bus
I have to:
change the 12V system to 6V
change all the parts necessary to fit the 1966 bus air cleaner
replace beetle exhaust with bus exhaust
and while I'm at it, this engine will get a basic restoration down to the short block, which I will keep assembled.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The first thing I had to do was a test for the endplay which had 0.09mm. 0.07 to 0.13 if new, above 0.15 the #1 bearing or the case needs to be machined:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Then I did disassemble to the long block and did take a lot of pictures.
The engine was once disassembled by me 15 or so years ago and I have to check, what I did wrong or right and in what condition the engine is.
It did run, but 15 years can do a lot to a sitting engine.

fuel line/hose 5 dots on this bushing
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only the two plug wires are clamped, the fuel line is behind it (rear is rear)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

original clamps. Which means original 47 year old fuel hose. Rock hard. Must be changed.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

should the fuel line route above or below the vacuum line? This fuel hose has significant wear on top and was therefore mounted below.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

to be replaced by 6V versions
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

this must be replaced by a 6V version
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

air cleaner bowden cable. This must be removed, because the 1966 bus air cleaner dies not have the temperature controlled flap
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

when I pulled the cable, this little part did show up:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

this must also be replaced
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

are 10 washers correct?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

carburetor base flange number and it's distributor. both will be addressed
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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

the clutch is like new. I never changed it since I own the beetle. 01/02 was probably the date when the part was manufactured. I did buy the car 1/2 a year later, drove it 1 year as my daily driver, before it was parked.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The cog thing was bone dry. Not so good, will give it a slightly smear of MOS2 during assembly
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

gland nut was never removed
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Anybody know, what this dimple in the center of the picture is for?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

and these two: (I've only seen the one to the right, but never the one to the left)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



this is how the engine did look after 4 hours:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


oil cooler is looking good, not swollen and no signs of oil drips
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

but a lot of oil from the barrels. It seems, that I have replaced these white tube seals years ago, but shame with me, that I did not clean the case. this will be caught up now. I will also change the main seal.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


this was the test fit for the air cleaner pickup tube. I did check, if the 25mm tube will line up with the newer 50mm tube to fit through the hole of the rear tin. The 25mm tube would work, but is not in the center of the 50mm tin hole. I need a special plug there, to cover the gap. This test was critical, because otherwise I would need to change the under pulley tin too, which I wanted to prevent. I made so many pictures, but I forgot the one with the 25mm tube.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


time left: (still) 20 days
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: my engine dilemma and other fixes diary (ultra pic heavy) Reply with quote

mr. lang wrote:

fuel line/hose 5 dots on this bushing
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Anybody know, what this dimple in the center of the picture is for?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Not bushing, grommet. Smile You are doing great with the English!

Dimple looks like start of lightening/balancing hole, but worker stopped drilling.
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 3:42 am    Post subject: Re: my engine dilemma and other fixes diary (ultra pic heavy) Reply with quote

Very Happy
thanks E&B !

Funny thing is, I ride street-luge and skateboard since many years and you can identify the newbie pretty quick, when he does call the bushings in the trucks grommet.
I guess same thing happened here Surprised




I forgot to post some pictures:

original to my beetle F engine from 1969, model year 1970 modified for 1966 split bus

The cylinders do have the paper gasket mounted. I would like to remove them, because they did obviously leak. But then the position of the piston in the cylinder will change too. If there is a edge on the cylinder from wear, the rings will smash against it. I need to investigate into this further or will at least bring the cylinders to my local engine shop for a quick hone.
I also have to check deck high after the gaskets are removed.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


In one of my slit bus workshop manuals (from 1959) there are notes on imbalance marks and how to line them up. These are
crank: color dot into the thread hole for the gland nut
flywheel: color dot and 5mm hole on the surface to the clutch
clutch: color dash on the edge of the pressure plate
The marks should be lined up with a 120° offset. If only two marks are found, they have to be lined up 180°

anybody seen or realized these marks before? When I disassemble this engine, I did not see any signs of this.

Just did check the 1957 beetle workshop manual and it does contain the same information.
In the 1969 manual only the hint to consider the imbalance marks, but no information, what these marks are.
No information about this at all in the later workshop manual from 1975
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: my engine dilemma and other fixes diary (ultra pic heavy) Reply with quote

mr. lang wrote:
In one of my slit bus workshop manuals (from 1959) there are notes on imbalance marks and how to line them up. These are
crank: color dot into the thread hole for the gland nut
flywheel: color dot and 5mm hole on the surface to the clutch
clutch: color dash on the edge of the pressure plate
The marks should be lined up with a 120° offset. If only two marks are found, they have to be lined up 180°

anybody seen or realized these marks before? When I disassemble this engine, I did not see any signs of this.

Just did check the 1957 beetle workshop manual and it does contain the same information.
In the 1969 manual only the hint to consider the imbalance marks, but no information, what these marks are.
No information about this at all in the later workshop manual from 1975

I can answer my own question.

In the 1969 manual, this hint to check imbalance marks, without any further explanation was in the crank/flywheel section.

Way back in the book in the clutch section are the further explanations:
flywheel: countersunk 5mm diameter or white color dash at the edge of the flywheel, if the rest imbalance is between 5 and 20 cmg
clutch: white color dash at the edge of the pressure plate if the imbalance is between 5 and 15 cmg

If the stock parts do not have these marks, I expect that they are balanced within 0 and 5 cmg.

I was just curious about this, because I have to change the flywheel for a 6V version.
So I guess, I can mount it in any position.
Later in the waterpumper engines, they did set one of the 6 flywheel screws slightly offset, so you are only able to mount the flywheel in one position.
Anyway, I will mark those parts for when i will put this engine back to 12V.
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: my engine dilemma and other fixes diary (ultra pic heavy) Reply with quote

Quote:
This engine did run very well the last 5 years, but recently I did found particles in the oil and a nice cover of sludge smear on the drain plate.


This is completely normal with air cooled VW engines. If it has good compression, makes no noise, keep running it and keep those oil changes at 5000km, cleaning the strainer each time.
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:37 am    Post subject: Re: my engine dilemma and other fixes diary (ultra pic heavy) Reply with quote

The particles are more like flakes. They do barely fit true the mesh of the oil strainer and are paper thin.

I found them in the cylinder heads sticking to the valve covers and hiding below behind the valve cover gasket. Most of them on the left side, but also a few on the right side of the engine. Like gold flakes in a sluice box.
First i thought that these are remnants from the line bore which did stick in the channels, now breaking loose, but they are getting more and more instead of less and then gone.
The engine has now 11000km and never had such symptoms.

I will take pictures tonight, hopefully to find some remnants of the flakes. I did wipe them off on the left side, the last time I did show them to a friend.

The sludge is on the drain plate and could be indeed normal.


This aside, the engine is running very very well.
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:50 am    Post subject: Re: my engine dilemma and other fixes diary (ultra pic heavy) Reply with quote

original to my beetle F engine from 1969, model year 1970 modified for 1966 split bus

I did clean the tins and a few other parts.
First I did remove the grease and dirt and remnants of old oil with gasoline used for cleaning purposes.
Then I did clean them in the shower with soap and water. Hopefully my GF does not see these pictures. Surprised
No additional rust prevention necessary.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

These are almost all the tins in their original stock black finish.
The picture can not be used as a reference for 1970 F 1300 engines, because a few of the tins are not correct, but necessary for my engine modification.
The bus has the 25mm hose to the air cleaner, so the 25mm pickup tube is needed. Therefore, i also need the deflector plate for this tube and therefore I need the straight oil filler tube.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Eventually I will post a picture with all the original tins which can be used as reference later.
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:31 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 7-seater/camper: engine dilemma and other fixes (pic heavy) Reply with quote

VW exchange beetle H engine from 1967
these are the flakes I found:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

these are the measurements for the biggest flake to the left:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I don't know exactly, what bearing clearance I have, because I did let the engine builder, who did line bore the case, figure this out, but with the thickness of 0.05mm up to 0.1mm the flake does fall within the thickness of the bearing clearance for a new engine.

It was late at night and I forgot to test if it is magnetic or not.

Any hints are very welcome.

If this would be gold hiding in the case, that would be awesome !!
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Last edited by mr. lang on Wed May 10, 2017 3:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:47 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 7-seater/camper: engine dilemma and other fixes (pic heavy) Reply with quote

original to my beetle F engine from 1969, model year 1970 modified for 1966 split bus
I didn't want to, but then I decided to remove the pulley.
I did use this rod to prevent the crank from rotating, instead of the flywheel clamp, to prevent the crank from getting twisted.
It came off with a little afford and with a crap pulley puller.
I think I will fab a tool like the Matra one in the future.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

then some cleaning. Probably the most boring job during the whole rebuild. The top of the engine was covered with baked on dirt and grime and the lower half with a thick skin of dirt and oil (like you can still see below the cylinders.
I didn't thought that this would be that time consuming and I'm still not done jet. The underside, below the cylinders and the front does need a massage too.
I did put the nuts back to the location they came from. I do this since ever. Remove nut, lay it out in a pattern, like it was mounted, on the floor and then clean and put them back to the same spot it was before.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

on the case it does read 1.3 010P or something like this
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


time left till camping trip: 18 days
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 7-seater/camper: engine dilemma and other fixes (pic heavy) Reply with quote

Well the metal flakes could just be a sign that someone just did not pull the sump plate at each oil change, and no full flow oil filter. Have seen engines with more flakes in the oil run many more miles.

Be a good time to install a CB Maxi 2 or VW of Mexico oil filter/pump. Need to find out if you have a dished or flat cam to get filter/pump to match.

Crankshaft pulley should not be torqued on super tight and does not need to be a press fit onto the crankshaft. Personally like to hand sand the inner diameter of the pulley for a slip on fit so it takes little effort.

Do re-toque the case and head fasteners as you would when rebuilding an engine. Amazing how loose those can get.
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 4:42 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 7-seater/camper: engine dilemma and other fixes (pic heavy) Reply with quote

VW exchange beetle H engine from 1967

E&B, Thanks for your comment !

I did the oil change by myself and I did also pull the sump plate to clean it together with the mesh thing in gasoline.
I found the flakes during my second last oil change 3500km ago, did wipe them off the valve covers and kept going.
Then i found even more of them during my latest oil change 2250km ago.
So I did two times flush the contaminated oil and did refill with fresh oil.
Since then I wipe the flakes off every time I pick up the bus for a ride. The last time was ~100km ago.
The picture from above has the contamination from the last 100km and what was left in the case after the last oil change and the other wipe offs.

I'm sure the engine can withstand many more miles, but I fear, that one of the smaller oil passages could be blocked, causing a much bigger failure.


About the filter pump:
The case does have 6mm studs and the cam is the early 3 rivet (flat) cam.
I don't know exactly, how many mm the pump gear has (I guess 21mm).
The preheat pickup tube of the exhaust is on the right side.
Is it possible to mount such a filter pump without modification? Does it fit under the stock 1966 bus tin and exhaust?

Quote:
Do re-toque the case and head fasteners as you would when rebuilding an engine. Amazing how loose those can get.
I will do so, thanks for the hint!
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 7-seater/camper: engine dilemma and other fixes (pic heavy) Reply with quote

The oil pump / filter can interfere with a left side pre-heat tube. Since yours is on the right... it should be ok.
The pre-heat side has an aluminum gasket with a restricted (small) hole and the other side would have a gasket with a large hole.

Pre-heat with tube side:
https://www.paruzzi.com/uk/volkswagen/fuel-exhaust-heater/exhaust-systems-catalyst/5158/

The other side:
https://www.limebug.com/product/view/3469/vw-pre-heat-exhaust-gasket-23
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 7-seater/camper: engine dilemma and other fixes (pic heavy) Reply with quote

Great thread Mr. Lang! I love all the anal attention to detail here! That bug engine is so original!

Questions-

That double white clip that holds the bowden cable and other Harness? What is the second tube it's connected to? Is it an electrical harness? If so, which one?
I've never seen that clip before so it was great to see it.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Can I ask a favor? The timing decal under the coil. Can you take a clear picture of it with a tape measure for reference? I want to have it reproduced.

On your metal flakes, I wonder if they are being generated from the cam gear?

Keep up the great work here. Love the attention to detail. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 7-seater/camper: engine dilemma and other fixes (pic heavy) Reply with quote

mr. lang wrote:

About the filter pump:
The case does have 6mm studs and the cam is the early 3 rivet (flat) cam.
I don't know exactly, how many mm the pump gear has (I guess 21mm).
The preheat pickup tube of the exhaust is on the right side.
Is it possible to mount such a filter pump without modification? Does it fit under the stock 1966 bus tin and exhaust?


As long as you get an oil filter/pump to match the cam shaft gear you have that can be dished or flat it will fit fine. You are already using a muffler with heat riser pipe on right side, so you do not need to use a short oil filter as some do. Just make sure to use an oil filter that has an internal relief valve, WIX brand filter seems to be a better quality part. Have personally installed the filter/pumps on earlier 40 HP engines with 6mm studs in both type 1s & 2s, so all you have to do is install longer studs and use a thicker washer on each to nut it down. At most you probably will need to take off a little from the cover to clear the front of the pulley tin.

When VW went to the 8 mm stud for the oil pump the stud center was moved out about 1 mm. So when you install the filter/pump body and cover you will see how the thinner 6 mm studs hug the inner side of each hole aligning the pump to the case just right.

Doubt that the metal flakes will clog up an oil passage, but they will score up the bearings. Got a used 40 HP engine with about 30,000 miles from a friend decades ago. One of the pistons had blown up, been replaced by a shop, and piston had not been balanced to the rest. Vibrated so badly that the engine tin screws had to be tightened back down every few hundred miles or they started to fall out every 500 miles. Tore it down to long block, to balanced the pistons. Since that far down into it, replaced the rod bearings. Found the bearings had lots of score lines in them from metal that got thru the strainer. Installed oil filter/pump and got another 10,000 miles on the engine before the crankshaft broke due to having no radius ground in each bearing journal corner. Rod bearings were perfect with just the slightest polish to them in the push/pull direction of the pistons.
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 4:43 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 7-seater/camper: engine dilemma and other fixes (pic heavy) Reply with quote

Many thanks for your answers and compliments guys!

easy e wrote:
The pre-heat side has an aluminum gasket with a restricted (small) hole and the other side would have a gasket with a large hole.

Thanks for the hint about the different gasket hole diameters. I did know, that they do exist, but not which one to use.

wcfvw69 wrote:
That double white clip that holds the bowden cable and other Harness? What is the second tube it's connected to? Is it an electrical harness?

That clip is clipped to the upper ignition wire going to cylinder #1 (In your case I don't know where it should be clipped to with the drive dog 180° off Very Happy I'm only joking !)
Part number of the clip is 113 129 919

wcfvw69 wrote:
Can I ask a favor? The timing decal under the coil. Can you take a clear picture of it with a tape measure for reference? I want to have it reproduced.

I'm not sure, if this will be much of a help, because half of the paint is faded away. Is this okay, or do you need another shot?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1642986.jpg
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 7-seater/camper: engine dilemma and other fixes (pic heavy) Reply with quote

mr. lang wrote:


wcfvw69 wrote:
That double white clip that holds the bowden cable and other Harness? What is the second tube it's connected to? Is it an electrical harness?

That clip is clipped to the upper ignition wire going to cylinder #1 (In your case I don't know where it should be clipped to with the drive dog 180° off Very Happy I'm only joking !)
Part number of the clip is 113 129 919

Don't be mean! Very Happy


Quote:
wcfvw69 wrote:
Can I ask a favor? The timing decal under the coil. Can you take a clear picture of it with a tape measure for reference? I want to have it reproduced.

I'm not sure, if this will be much of a help, because half of the paint is faded away. Is this okay, or do you need another shot?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1642986.jpg


Thanks for the picture. That helps!
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 7-seater/camper: engine dilemma and other fixes (pic heavy) Reply with quote

original to my beetle F engine from 1969, model year 1970 modified for 1966 split bus

It almost broke my heart to open up the virgin nut, but what must be, must he.
Check out the tiny 1/4" tool on the ground
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I removed the cylinder heads, cylinders and then the pistons
Before I did unscrew the cylinder heads, I did check the offset of the valve adjuster screws. exhaust #4 does not look very good, should be more offset to the outside.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Then I did clean the rest of the case except the underside (I have to drain the oil first)
it seems, that Goetze was one of the OEM parts supplier
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The first inspection of the engine case was some kind of Crying or Very sad
The inside of the engine is completely covered with baked-on oil. Now I wonder: when a engine has baked-on oil on the outside, like this had, will the inside always look like this?
Not only the case, also the inside of the piston and cylinder heads.
Is this a sign of blow-by, overheated engine or only bad oil? Probably part of all of them.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


engine case:
The cylinder seat surface is crooked. The 0.10mm feeler gauge did slip right in on all 4 cylinders to the exhaust (outer) side.
On the inside, where the cylinders are close together, the surface is flat
This one was measured on cylinder #4, the worst one.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This case does need some love.

Cylinder heads:
#1 did leak
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The cylinder seat surface is a tiny bit recessed. I could feel it with my fingernail, constant around the perimeter. A very sharp edge. Is this actually wear or original there? I guess I know the answer. How much is reasonable? The workshop manual does remain silent about that.
There are no cracks and all the plug threads do look good.
How can I clean the chamber and the valves? Dremel on and go?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The not so offset exhaust valve adjuster screw #4 did left a deep pocket behind
The intake valve does not look any better
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I don't know the condition of the valve guides, but these heads/valves need some work.

Piston/Cylinder:
I did the basic measurements:
cylinder (measured 15mm from the top)
#1 77.04mm
#2 77.05mm
#3 77.03mm
#4 77.035mm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

piston (measured at the skirt)
#1 76.94mm
#2 76.93mm
#3 76.93mm
#4 76.94mm
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

piston/cylinder
#1 0.10mm
#2 0.12mm
#3 0.10mm
#4 0.095mm
they are all within the wear limit of 0.20mm

I've measured the piston rings too, but they are all shot. One was even broken. Rolling Eyes
This is a tool you should buy before you regret it. I did after I did regret it. This was many years ago and it took me a few years to come along a oversized 83.5mm piston ring. Lesson learned.
I need new rings.
How can I clean the pistons and ring grooves? Which dremel tool is the best ? lol
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The wrist pins are all within the wear limit.

piston ring groove (the grooved were horrible filled with carbon or whatever so I did measure with feeler gauge at one position)
#1 < 2.15mm (I could stick the 0.15mm feeler gauge only half way in)
#2 < 2.10mm (0.10mm feeler gauge half way in)
#3 2.10mm
#4 < 2.10mm (0.10mm feeler gauge half way in)
piston #1 has reached the wear limit of 0.12mm for the top piston ring
The groove for the lower piston rings and the oil rings were below 0.10mm and therefore below the wear limit of 0.10mm
Is it normal, that the grooves are tapered?
Could the 2.00mm piston ring be replaced by a 2.5mm piston ring (machine work probably yes, but function-wise) ?

Conclusion:
This engine does need more attention than I was hoping for.
While the tin does look very nice, the inner values are ...

Because of that, I had to change my plan:
Splitting the case to mill the surface flat and to address the valves will easy exceed my timeline of 14 days left.
I will finish this engine nevertheless, but will slow down a bit and concentrate more on Eric&Barbs suggestion about the oil filter pump.

General plan to make the camping trip happen:
- Install oil filter pump on exchange H 1500 engine
- Finish the F 1300 engine
- Swap engines
- Fix exchange H 1500 engine
- Swap engines
- enjoy the summer time

Plan for this 1300 F engine:
- split case to inspect further
- disassemble valves from cylinder heads and inspect further
- bring cylinders to local shop and let them hone them.
- clean pistons, get a set of new rings and call them done? Or open up the top ring for a 2.5mm replacement to get back into specification? New 1300 piston and cylinders are getting pricey. Or buy a used set in very good condition?

I'm open for any suggestions on how to fix the various parts

Thank you guys so much for being patient and helping me out ! Appreciate that !!
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Last edited by mr. lang on Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 7-seater/camper: engine dilemma and other fixes (pic heavy) Reply with quote

VW exchange beetle H 1500 engine from 1967

I will follow Eric&Barbs suggestion about the filter oil pump.

Eric&Barb wrote:
so all you have to do is install longer studs and use a thicker washer on each to nut it down. At most you probably will need to take off a little from the cover to clear the front of the pulley tin.

When VW went to the 8 mm stud for the oil pump the stud center was moved out about 1 mm. So when you install the filter/pump body and cover you will see how the thinner 6 mm studs hug the inner side of each hole aligning the pump to the case just right.

Doubt that the metal flakes will clog up an oil passage, but they will score up the bearings.


I wonder If I can do a modification like I did to the dog house oil cooler adapter.
Instead of the case, the adapter was drilled and modified and a special nut was made for this to work. This was installed in this exchange H engine and holding up very well so far.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Would this be possible with this pump?

I have to remove the top fins from the cover anyway, so why not mill a 10mm diameter pocket, where the 6mm stud will be (moved in 1mm from the 8mm stud position). Just deep enough to thread a special nut to the 6mm stud and to keep the sealing surface. The special nut will then rest on top of the oil pump cover instead of in the pocket.
I have access to a small mill and lathe where something like this could be done.
Or does any of you have concerns?
Does the oil pump without the cover stick out further then the 6mm stock pump? From the pictures on the cb side it does not look so.
If this will not work, I will replace the studs.


EDIT: I did remove my oil filter questions, because this is covered in many many other threads I have to read first.
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:10 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 7-seater/camper: engine dilemma and other fixes (pic heavy) Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
Great thread Mr. Lang! I love all the anal attention to detail here! That bug engine is so original!

Questions-

That double white clip that holds the bowden cable and other Harness? What is the second tube it's connected to? Is it an electrical harness? If so, which one?
I've never seen that clip before so it was great to see it.

Keep up the great work here. Love the attention to detail. Very Happy


I was wondering about the white clip too. It's seems more logical that it would keep the two high tension leads together (and seperate!). The cable is better not to flex too much, but unless the clip was attached to the shroud it wouldn't help.

Mr lang, I love this thread too! You are very meticulous and the photos are part of a wonderful documentation. I hope you don't mind, I have quoted your post in a thread documenting original 1970 engine bay features in the Ghia forum?

1970 engine bay, restoring to original

Thanks!
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