Author |
Message |
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 8:24 pm Post subject: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
OK, so here we go forward with the quest...
Putting this out there in the hope we can suss out what is correct for our cars.
Here is a difference between aftermarket, and '67 factory OG seat covers; the number of heat seams.
My OG front seat covers have nine heat seams, and the reproductions have seven:
Does anybody know if this is also the case for any other years?
Looks like early cars only had seven seams:
And same for '66..
So,
It looks like Nine seams is a '67-only thing..
Can anyone confirm this for later cars?
How many seams did they put on high-backs (if any)?
Any help is appreciated here... Thanks in advance. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
HenrikL Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2005 Posts: 313 Location: Sweden
|
Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 12:11 am Post subject: Re: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
What is the brand name of the aftermarket seat cover in the first picture? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22728 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
|
Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
The '68 owner's manual shows 9 heat seams too.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/68owners/4.jpg _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
Thanks Tram!
Anybody out there got a pic of some OG late model seats??
Anyone? _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34013 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
Clatter wrote: |
Thanks Tram!
Anybody out there got a pic of some OG late model seats??
Anyone? |
How "late" is "late" to you? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
Anything after 1967... _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
stonecoldcars Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2013 Posts: 265 Location: Oregon
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Donnie strickland Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009 Posts: 2403 Location: Moody, AL
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17970 Location: Eugene, OR
|
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
This '68-'69 highback w/chrome trim has 9 seams.
_________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
Thanks for the pics and info, guys..!
Hopefully, they might invest in tooling up to make the seat covers correct.
It's a money thing, as always;
It costs money to have prototype heat seaming dies made out of metal.
And many in this hobby don't even know or care what was correct!
Do any of you care if your covers are right, or not?
Would you avoid new covers knowing that the ones you can get aren't right? _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
stonecoldcars wrote: |
My 68 fasty had 9 originally , my new have 7.
[img][/img] |
And how does this make you feel??
_________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13280 Location: Tejas!
|
Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
Quote: |
Do any of you care if your covers are right, or not?
Would you avoid new covers knowing that the ones you can get aren't right? |
yes and yes and I would pay more to have them done locally, correctly.
Don't get me started on the '66 ones, smooth on the outer sections, basket weave only in the middle, roll over on top
_________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
stonecoldcars Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2013 Posts: 265 Location: Oregon
|
Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
Clatter wrote: |
stonecoldcars wrote: |
My 68 fasty had 9 originally , my new have 7.
[img][/img] |
And how does this make you feel??
|
Doesn't bother me a bit.. _________________ My build thread(The desert Rat). http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653395 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22425 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:39 am Post subject: Re: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
stonecoldcars wrote: |
Clatter wrote: |
stonecoldcars wrote: |
My 68 fasty had 9 originally , my new have 7.
[img][/img] |
And how does this make you feel??
|
Doesn't bother me a bit.. |
Times 2. But, I go for velour because vinyl sucks in the summer months.
If you're gonna piss and moan about it, how about getting correct colors too. It's either that, or go with SewFine and be even more depressed. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
The Guy Who Sports a Scalloped Roadster Pickup wrote: |
I go for velour.. |
Isn't tweed technically correct for 1988?
More and more people are going to be caring what is, and isn't, correct for late(r) model VWs.
We are seeing them go from "Fat Chick" to "Second Design".
Where only 1500 club early cars were revered, now the later models are becoming treasured.
(What ever happened to that 1600 club, anyways? )
It's only a logical progression of things, as fewer and fewer of these cars are around, and they get older every day.
The level at which people do their work is also likely to rise.
You will see less of the Patina POS (formerly called HoodRide) over time.
This current fad is sure to fade.
As the costs and difficulty to restore these rises, lazy/poor people will increasingly be priced out of the hobby (time is money after all).
Cars sitting in fields won't be as likely to just get running and drive anymore..
Once all of the OG interiors have been replaced by Sewfine Panel Grafix and their ilk,
A genuine OG set of VW interior pieces will be a treasure indeed!
As the hobby matures, along with the participants, and more of the cars have been bastardized by customizers,
What is, and is not correct, will become increasingly more important.
You will see more folks trying to replicate what these were when new.
Look how even bay busses are starting to come under the microscope of originality; you would think they were Pre-A 356s or something!
VWs are unique and original cars from a specific point in time.
They have many little details that set them apart and make them special.
As these details are erased by aftermarket vendors making things 'one size fits all', little bits of their originality disappear.
People who pay attention, and care, mind these things happening.
More and more people are going to be doing both. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22425 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
Clatter wrote: |
The Guy Who Sports a Scalloped Roadster Pickup wrote: |
I go for velour.. |
Isn't tweed technically correct for 1988?
More and more people are going to be caring what is, and isn't, correct for late(r) model VWs.
We are seeing them go from "Fat Chick" to "Second Design".
Where only 1500 club early cars were revered, now the later models are becoming treasured.
(What ever happened to that 1600 club, anyways? )
It's only a logical progression of things, as fewer and fewer of these cars are around, and they get older every day.
The level at which people do their work is also likely to rise.
You will see less of the Patina POS (formerly called HoodRide) over time.
This current fad is sure to fade.
As the costs and difficulty to restore these rises, lazy/poor people will increasingly be priced out of the hobby (time is money after all).
Cars sitting in fields won't be as likely to just get running and drive anymore..
Once all of the OG interiors have been replaced by Sewfine Panel Grafix and their ilk,
A genuine OG set of VW interior pieces will be a treasure indeed!
As the hobby matures, along with the participants, and more of the cars have been bastardized by customizers,
What is, and is not correct, will become increasingly more important.
You will see more folks trying to replicate what these were when new.
Look how even bay busses are starting to come under the microscope of originality; you would think they were Pre-A 356s or something!
VWs are unique and original cars from a specific point in time.
They have many little details that set them apart and make them special.
As these details are erased by aftermarket vendors making things 'one size fits all', little bits of their originality disappear.
People who pay attention, and care, mind these things happening.
More and more people are going to be doing both. |
In 1988, I was sticking to vinyl in my 70 Fastback. I hated it, especially on long drives.
As for the scalloped thing, it's disappearing in that it's becoming a parts car to keep 2 other type 3s on the road. When it quits raining I'll get you a current pic, because next weekend there will be less of it to photograph.
I do agree with the guy who is going to a big type 4 engine, 5 speed Porsche trans, with 944 trailing arms, with wide Porsche rims (cut down to be an even width set) in his otherwise "stock" 67 Fastback. But, only up to a point, and that point is it's only original once. How are going to be able to tell the original survivors from the just freshly restored (3 or 4 times) car parked next to you? Think about it for a moment.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see manufacturers step up to the plate and make correct parts, but there's enough junk out there that it'll take forever for it to be fixed. And it's NOT just the price of the parts driving it either.
I really need to get a pic of my sunroof seal that's less than a year old that the blue rubber piece has already almost completely come out of. And I don't mean a 3 or 4 inch section either, I'm talking about the whole opening. I bought it from one of the usual "highly respected" suppliers too. Disappointed, you bet. The previous seal lasted 9 years, and this one barely went 9 months. It's not like I live in Texas or Arizona where it gets really hot either. These are the things that really need to be addressed. The crap parts that are out there. The stuff that should never be a problem, and now is. The stuff that lasted forever (40 or 50 years so far) and now only goes a year (if you're lucky). WTF?? Or the parts that need to be modified just to be able to use them, because there's no quality control any more. And it's not just EMPI (where the letters stand for Every Mistake Passes Inspection), it's others as well. How can you (as a company) sell a broken new part? Or the buyer bought it new, but clearly shows wear? Explain these to me.
I'm at the point where I'm slowly getting out of VW's because of crappy parts. Period. That (crappy parts) alone WILL be the end of doing a 100 point restorations. I've got 1 more car here to do, and it'll get a TMI interior when I get to that point (forget SewFine, as I didn't care for the fit of stuff), and it won't be a 100%er either. Tram, myself and others have been harping on this for years, but nobody seems to be listening.
I'm not worried about velour seat covers, as I've already had them installed for 17 years, and they are still holding up great. My wife's Fastback has a set of them too, and they were installed in 1991, and other than some sun fading, they're still in great shape.
I never called the 2nd design cars "fat chicks", as I always felt that was reserved for beetles (they started that crap). I always liked the term "shark nosed", but it didn't catch on. The 1600 club never got off the ground, because nobody wanted the job (without pay) to do the work. Well that, and nobody has the spare time any more.
As for the patina (or fauxtina) look, it can go with Hoodride too, and wouldn't bother me a bit. Now if it had genuine patina, and the rest of the car was still 100% stock, it would be a survivor. But most of them are just ratted out, with tires and wheels or have a thumping stereo or air bag system that cost more than the car did. All you have to do is look thru the gallery sometime, or even scan the cars for sale section.
I hate to tell you this, but the hobby has been maturing since 1979, and customizers have been busy doing their thing since the 60's. It won't change either, although more and more are doing "stock" restos.
Sorry for rambling on, but you started it. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
savannanotch Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2015 Posts: 31 Location: Washougal,WA
|
Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
My 69 euro Notch has original lowback seats with 9 seams .
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13280 Location: Tejas!
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
|
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
MMMmmmm... Yes, very nice.
Euro late roll-over low-backs..
With nine lovely seams in all of their glory...!
Now,
For a few props where credit is deserved:
TMI does do the partial seams correctly, at least with regard to their length.
('66-only seven-seam style roll-over, with early two-tone added)
From this thread, where a custom set of early/late hybrid low-backs were made:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568529&highlight=tmi
For the less initiated out there; low-backs were non-rollover until '66.
They also had only seven seams until '67, when low-backs went to eight seams.
Late-models from '68-up had nine seams, both high and low-back models.
(At least what I have learned so far)..
Speaking to people at TMI, they have been slowly making their parts more correct.
They started doing roll-overs a few years back, which is good(!).
They also just did the door panels more correctly, with the seams along the bottom being added.
The above custom set, with the two-tone is new, too.
So,
They are improving the product.
Obviously, they aren't getting rich by making VW anything.
It only costs them to make their products more correct.
I consider myself lucky that Mario was there to push the door panel project through.
What I am trying to accomplish here, is perhaps, getting them to make the tooling for the heat seams on later models correctly..
The custom two-tone set in the pics above doesn't represent a significant investment as far as the tooling goes.
If a customer can pay a little more to have different pieces of material stitched together, that doesn't cost a lot more.
My understanding is, that making another set of dies (from scratch - prototype machined) is required to change the pattern on heat seams.
So,
Adding another pair of heat seams is a totally different project than making covers out of two different materials.
You don't just 'add a couple of seams on'..
Any manufacturing business needs to recoup the investment (or at least most of it) made to tool up for a run.
They already tooled up for the roll-over seaming,
And also door panel seams.
It's unfortunate that those dag-blasted '66-only seven-seam roll-overs came to the party!
They mighta made the correct nine-seam tooling for all of the late models when they did it!
So,
Hoping that enough out there know and/or care that their aftermarket seat covers are correctly made.
If so,
there is a good chance that they might just tool up!
There are seven years' worth of cars that would benefit from this nine-seam tooling.
There are only two years that benefitted from their roll-over tooling,
So chances are pretty good!
But only if there are people out there who care.
And that doesn't seem to be the case.
So,
If you care,
Say so! _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22425 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Cover Details |
|
|
Clatter wrote: |
MMMmmmm... Yes, very nice.
Euro late roll-over low-backs..
With nine lovely seams in all of their glory...!
For the less initiated out there; low-backs were non-rollover until '66.
They also had only seven seams until '67, when low-backs went to eight seams.
Late-models from '68-up had nine seams, both high and low-back models.
(At least what I have learned so far...)
There are seven years' worth of cars that would benefit from this nine-seam tooling.
There are only two years that benefitted from their roll-over tooling,
So chances are pretty good!
But only if there are people out there who care.
And that doesn't seem to be the case.
So,
If you care,
Say so! |
How do you figure 7 years? I can see 67 thru 71, but 72 and 73 used a different pattern due to having different seating layouts and styles (they look more like a Rabbit or Super beetle).
You can keep trying to get them to do them, but I really don't think they will. I mean they still haven't changed their catalog cut off dates yet, and I mentioned that to Mario way back when he joined the forum. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|