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c21darrel
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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 Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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| mcdonaldneal wrote: |
Chris, I think your plan is sound. A low cost rebuild, essentially stock, would be great experience, and give you a lot of time to think about where you're going.
Fuel pump is the good kind, circlip on the rod.
Distributor is originally from a '66-'67 bus (Old Volks Home info). It is vacuum only advance (SVSA), so the same type as your Ghia and mine, but the vacuum curve may be different.
I would say worth having a go at rebuilding, ask nicely and wcfvw or Glenn might sell you the 2 fibre washers it needs, and it would be worth USD100 or more to someone. Probably not perfect for your build though.
If you're rebuilding it stock, look out for a PICT 30-2 carb. Rebuild kits available, or I have one (a carb) if you're visiting.
edit for carb number |
Hi Phil
Thanks for the advice. I'll let you know about the carb - the one you mentioned before the edit is sitting in a box here, but my mate Dean promised me some more parts and I'll see if he has a PICT30-2.
I'm stalled for the moment, waiting for a H block for the sequential (maybe parallel) build.
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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| c21darrel wrote: |
Great thread idea Chris. Im still not sure what type of build this will be. Stock looking right? Dual/single carb?
Split the case lets see whats inside. :) |
Stock is Engine build 101. I think a first level of upgrade would be 102 and a really nice engine 103, at which point I'll graduate. This block is going to be my exercise and learning model. I'm waiting for the right H block and will get some direction once I have one.
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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c21darrel
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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Thanks Darrel, but this gentleman has far greater skills and better tools than I will ever have.
I've done some research here on the Samba with regard to the engine number. According to the technical section, the engine numbers allocated to 1500 engines for Beetles, Buses and Type 3s were as follows:
1967 to 1970 HO, H1 - 44hp DIN or 53hp SAE
1967 to 1970 H5 - 44hp DIN or 53 hp SAE (US and Canada only)
According the Phil in Edinburgh, the distributor is that installed on a 1967 Bus. A piece of tin according to another poster confirms the Bus identification.
Thus: (1) I have an HO engine, probably originally installed in a 1500 Bus not destined for the US or Canada. (2) Since the same engines, with some small differences with regard to engine tin and the placement of the air cleaners, were installed in Beetles, Buses and Ghias, the engine I have is year, capacity and H number appropriate for the rebuild I want to do.
Thus no need for a second case, and more dollars to spend on this one.
Or am I wrong somehow?
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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John Moxon 
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13958
Location: Southampton U.K.
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:11 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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As well as "The Samba Support Team" I think you might find the "Bug Me Video" the "care assistant" you need.
Volume 3 is the one: http://www.bugmevideo.com/volume3.html
| Quote: |
Completely rebuild a type I engine!
Volume 3 is a complete engine rebuild video, it covers the 1600 dual port, 1500, and 40 hp motors and all the important differences.
Includes:
-Tear down
-Inspection
-Reassembly
If you have ever been hesitant to tackle something as big as an engine rebuild, this video will give you all the information and confidence you need, you can rebuild your engine, let us show you how!
Running time: 2 hours 38 min. |
Rick has that calm reassuring delivery that makes you think, "Hey I can do this"...don't even have to buy outright...you can rent online.
BTW I don't get a cut from this advertising interlude 
_________________
John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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| kiwighia68 wrote: |
...
I've done some research here on the Samba with regard to the engine number. According to the technical section, the engine numbers allocated to 1500 engines for Beetles, Buses and Type 3s were as follows:
1967 to 1970 HO, H1 - 44hp DIN or 53hp SAE
1967 to 1970 H5 - 44hp DIN or 53 hp SAE (US and Canada only)
According the Phil in Edinburgh, the distributor is that installed on a 1967 Bus. A piece of tin according to another poster confirms the Bus identification.
Thus: (1) I have an HO engine, probably originally installed in a 1500 Bus not destined for the US or Canada. (2) Since the same engines, with some small differences with regard to engine tin and the placement of the air cleaners, were installed in Beetles, Buses and Ghias, the engine I have is year, capacity and H number appropriate for the rebuild I want to do.
Thus no need for a second case, and more dollars to spend on this one.
Or am I wrong somehow? |
I'm no expert on this topic, but it seems that every resource that I have found listing both the chassis number range and engine number range for a particular Karmann Ghia model year including ...
- this one from JBugs.com
- this one from BugHaus.com
... indicate that 1968 model year Karmann Ghias should have an engine number that falls in the range from "H 5 333 001" to "H 5 414 585".
The engine that you have picked up to rebuild bears the number "H 0 017 733", which your research indicates was likely originally installed in a Type II not destined for the U.S. or Canada.
So while that engine is indeed capacity appropriate for the rebuild you want to do, I do not think that it is technically year or H number appropriate.
(Furthermore while it may be H number appropriate for a 1967 model year Karmann Ghia, the engine number falls outside of the "H 0 204 001" to "H 0 874 199" range reserved for 1967 Ghia production.)
What I'm wondering is this - were all Karmann Ghias built in a specific model year fitted with the U.S./Canada spec engine, or could Ghias destined for delivery outside those two areas have been fitted with a different spec engine such as the one you have?
I think the answer to that question is key to whether or not the engine you currently have is indeed "year, capacity and H number appropriate", and I'm certain that some expert on Karmann Ghia production history here will chime in to set us both straight. |
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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| KGCoupe wrote: |
...I'm no expert on this topic, but it seems that every resource that I have found listing both the chassis number range and engine number range for a particular Karmann Ghia model year including ...
- this one from JBugs.com
- this one from BugHaus.com
... indicate that 1968 model year Karmann Ghias should have an engine number that falls in the range from "H 5 333 001" to "H 5 414 585".
The engine that you have picked up to rebuild bears the number "H 0 017 733", which your research indicates was likely originally installed in a Type II not destined for the U.S. or Canada.
So while that engine is indeed capacity appropriate for the rebuild you want to do, I do not think that it is technically year or H number appropriate.
(Furthermore while it may be H number appropriate for a 1967 model year Karmann Ghia, the engine number falls outside of the "H 0 204 001" to "H 0 874 199" range reserved for 1967 Ghia production.)
What I'm wondering is this - were all Karmann Ghias built in a specific model year fitted with the U.S./Canada spec engine, or could Ghias destined for delivery outside those two areas have been fitted with a different spec engine such as the one you have?
I think the answer to that question is key to whether or not the engine you currently have is indeed "year, capacity and H number appropriate", and I'm certain that some expert on Karmann Ghia production history here will chime in to set us both straight. |
Thanks for your input. I think I can answer one question your post poses. It appears from the information I have and this is confirmed by your own inquiries that the H 5 cases were installed only in the US and Canadian cars - and that those cases were installed in all the 1500 US and Canadian Bugs, Buses and Ghias. The rest of the world got H O or H 1 cases.
It would be interesting to know whether there were/are significant differences between H O, H 1, and H 5 cases.
I've put some feelers out for an H O case with a number in the range I gave earlier. So far, one of the three has responded - no luck. I might have to drive 300km to go and look at a man's shed. He says he has many cases, but I must come and find an H case myself.
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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I need some quick advice please - auction ends in 12 hours.
I can pick up a complete engine with an H 5 block - to use in parallel with my learning efforts with the block I already have. (About $110 plus shipping.)
The H 5 series was used for USA and Canada only and this one must have made its way to New Zealand somehow.
Anyway - Does anyone know of a reason I should NOT use this H 5 block for a slightly spruced up motor (Engle cam, balanced parts, upgraded heads, 1641 Mahle cyliners and pistons, dual webers).
_________________
Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015
Last edited by kiwighia68 on Sat May 20, 2017 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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Not sure about the H-Cases, I had a 67 Beetle that had a Dual Relief Case engine, It may have been a B or something not sure what it was. I have rebuilt and run the H cases and the F cases which I think are even worse but you can hang a 30mm filter pump on them to correct for oil pressure issues. Lets see a photo of the pick-up Tubes intake hole and the top of the case and the Thrust Main Bearing seat. The things to check on the used case are how well it comes together and the bore measurements and the thrust cut measurement. Avoid anything that is not at least 20mm at the thrust They need to be tight where the bearings fit there. The bearings come in 22mm, 21mm and 20mm fit.
As far as align bore goes they need to have enough meat on them to align bore if they have ridges where the main bearings go. And if the lifter bores are wavy feeling to your finger then they need the bronze inserts done. It would be good if the align bore was not over .060" but I had one at .080" I rebuilt.
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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| Danwvw wrote: |
| Not sure about the H-Cases, I had a 67 Beetle that had a Dual Relief Case engine, It may have been a B or something not sure what it was. I have rebuilt and run the H cases and the F cases which I think are even worse. |
The F cases were 1300 and the B was 1970, according to the Engine Codes under Technical. A '67 US Beetle would have had an H O or H 1 engine.
"H0, H1 1967-1970 1500cc 44bhp DIN, 53HP SAE (only 1967 in USA, 67-70 elsewhere)
H5 1968-69 1500cc 44bhp DIN, 53HP SAE M157 USA/Canada.
B6 1970 1600cc Dual relief, single port, 47bhp DIN, 57HP SAE M157 USA/Canada."
I'm trying to find an H case that would be appropriate for a '68 Ghia. If all else fails, I'm going to get a new AS-21 case and start from there..
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1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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Some of the D0 cases are dual oil pressure relief and will make a nice 1600 they would be aftermarket VW cases that could be used for any type 1 engine and I would think they would qualify as being period correct. Here in the US though the H-Cases are everywhere a lot of them around and not much money being asked for them sometimes it just $10 or $50, everyone wants a later AE case which are better for opening up the Bore on.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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| Danwvw wrote: |
| Some of the D0 cases are dual oil pressure relief and will make a nice 1600 they would be aftermarket VW cases that could be used for any type 1 engine and I would think they would qualify as being period correct. Here in the US though the H-Cases are everywhere a lot of them around and not much money being asked for them sometimes it just $10 or $50, everyone wants a later AE case which are better for opening up the Bore on. |
You make a good point. I've just about given up on finding a good H case. (Some Sambanista are probably going to roll about on the floor with laughter and saying there's no such thing as a "good H case".)
Slight change of plan - uness I find a good H case soon - is to rebuild the H case that I have and to save my money for a really snappy rebuild of my Ghia's existing engine (AE case, or AS-41, I'm not sure).
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2877
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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I haven't been idle. I've been cleaning the H-case I have and have enlisted my grandson as my special helper.
Lots of cleaning and scraping before wirebrushing, followed by more cleaning and eventually painting with POR15 Factory Manifold Gray.
I can now touch the case (I don't like working in muck) and get on with the job of cleaning the other parts I have. The rebuild can only start when everything is present, clean and in working order.
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:42 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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I came acros this article on KarmannGhiaConnection.com from the June 1967 issue of Motor Trend magazine titled
"Empi's step-at-a-time 105-hp Karmann-Ghia
Poor Man's Porsche"
and I thought it may make an interesting read for you as you dream about and make plans for your future build of a "period correct" 1500cc Single Port engine for your 1968 Karmann Ghia.
Think of the information as additional "food" for your OCD/Perfectionism as you slowly convert to the "religion" of "Vintage Speed".
(... or am I preaching to someone that's already a choir member?  ) |
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kingkarmann
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 4114
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| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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| KGCoupe wrote: |
I came acros this article on KarmannGhiaConnection.com from the June 1967 issue of Motor Trend magazine titled
"Empi's step-at-a-time 105-hp Karmann-Ghia
Poor Man's Porsche"
and I thought it may make an interesting read for you as you dream about and make plans for your future build of a "period correct" 1500cc Single Port engine for your 1968 Karmann Ghia.
Think of the information as additional "food" for your OCD/Perfectionism as you slowly convert to the "religion" of "Vintage Speed".
(... or am I preaching to someone that's already a choir member? ) |
So Cool 
I bookmarked it!
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"Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”
Mike Gerson
What is your "Bespoke Reality"? |
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John Moxon
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13958
Location: Southampton U.K.
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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| John Moxon wrote: |
You can still find those Speedwell dual carb kits...some original, some repros...even in the Samba Classifieds
Yes period correct "Vintage Speed" would certainly add a "cool factor" to a 1500cc engine project. |
John, would you happen to know of any sources for the "very realistic spray-on imitation vinyl" and the "adhesive strips to simulate the seam" found in a real vinyl roof mentioned in the article?
Knowing kiwighia68, he won't be able to stop at just the engine performance improvements and will "need" to take his project all the way to the very last detail.
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John Moxon
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13958
Location: Southampton U.K.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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| KGCoupe wrote: |
| John Moxon wrote: |
You can still find those Speedwell dual carb kits...some original, some repros...even in the Samba Classifieds
Yes period correct "Vintage Speed" would certainly add a "cool factor" to a 1500cc engine project. |
John, would you happen to know of any sources for the "very realistic spray-on imitation vinyl" and the "adhesive strips to simulate the seam" found in a real vinyl roof mentioned in the article?
Knowing kiwighia68, he won't be able to stop at just the engine performance improvements and will "need" to take his project all the way to the very last detail.
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I'd have to run that past the Karmann Ghia Ethics Committee before passing on that kind of information. Hopefully they would block it.
_________________
John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Engine rebuild 101 |
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| John Moxon wrote: |
| KGCoupe wrote: |
| John Moxon wrote: |
You can still find those Speedwell dual carb kits...some original, some repros...even in the Samba Classifieds
Yes period correct "Vintage Speed" would certainly add a "cool factor" to a 1500cc engine project. |
John, would you happen to know of any sources for the "very realistic spray-on imitation vinyl" and the "adhesive strips to simulate the seam" found in a real vinyl roof mentioned in the article?
Knowing kiwighia68, he won't be able to stop at just the engine performance improvements and will "need" to take his project all the way to the very last detail.
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I'd have to run that past the Karmann Ghia Ethics Committee before passing on that kind of information. Hopefully they would block it. |
Yeah, fat chance of that!
Why I bet the committee wouldn't even approve something as simple as the removal of the '66 model year only special dash trim and its replacement with "adhesive 'wood' dash trim" ... let alone approving something more advanced such as the "installation" of a faux vinyl roof. |
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