1951 Deluxe Micro Bus discovered - Second Oldest Samba

[Lowdown Dirty Rat]

100% agree Ben.
Always found it very convenient that the only two known BD 15 windows (I don’t know much about the gravel pit bus, and there not much to go on from the pictures ) had had there roofs replaced in the past

I can also confirm that both my 51 and 52 came back with 24A on the birth certificate.
My 52 had;
24A, VW-eight seater with Sunroof.
I challenged this at the time with photos of the vin Tag (24S) etc and received another certificate with 24A, VW Micro Bud De Luxe.
They also told me the same as Ben that they would not change the 24A to 24S and even if they would there was no allocation of 24S available on their records.

So I agree, all 51 and 52 deluxes, whether 15 window or 23 should have 24S stamped on the vin tag and 24A on the birth certificate.
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1951 Samba 20-017894
1952 Samba 20-028952

[busben]

[Lowdown Dirty Rat]

Of course. That makes sense. A 15 window would likely start as a 22A not a 24A.
I’m so happy the Gravel pit bus has fallen to you. Can’t wait to see that one done dude!
I guess during the restoration it may come to light how ‘factory’ vs ‘coachbuild’ the corner and rear windows look. I doubt a coachbuilder would weld in a rear from a samba so they should have a unique cut and panel beat signature I would imagine?
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1951 Samba 20-017894
1952 Samba 20-028952

[RockStock]

It’s good to have honest discussions on those two “15 Windows”. Their history is a little murky…and don’t believe all you read in the magazines.

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-StockRocks-

[RockStock]

So to summarise the theory:

In the very early days of the 23w, 1951/52, metal-finished Barndoor Sunroof Standards (model 24A*) were re-routed on the production line to be hand-made into 23-Windows.

>Fourth side windows added
>Rear corner windows added
>Rear window enlarged
>8 skylights added
>Full width dash added

*24A = Micro Bus, Loading doors on right, with sunroof, LHD (known now as a Standard)

The VIN plate was then riveted on with 24S as the model type (S standing for Sonder/Special)…but the factory build-records still state the bus as a 24A.

I wonder if this picture hints at the 23w rework area? Would have to be taken in the deep skylight era.

Another theory is option code M51 could translate to ‘Convert to 23w’
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-StockRocks-

[RockStock]

To add to this, I’d like to mention Barndoor Deluxe VIN 20-017894…
This is the one that Rob (Lowdown Dirty Rat) epically rescued in Greece.

Photos from Jason Stratton show it being dismantled.
What some people found interesting is the Dove Blue showing through as apparently the base colour.
Bulkhead, engine bay, tool chest, heating duct…

Was it a fully-painted Barndoor Kombi Sunroof (model type 25A), rerouted in the factory to be revised into a 23w?

Or was it painted Dove Blue after its reassignment into a 23w?
It’s unclear if the red is factory SWR paint.

I’m unsure as to the current condition of this bus.
Maybe you could say a truly accurate restoration would see it painted Dove Blue first - under a SWR/CB coat
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-StockRocks-

[Scotty]

Fantastic information for sure
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[Ohio_Style]

This is great information.

Does anyone know what the premium was for for a 23w over a regular old microbus if they were on the showroom floor? Seems like a super labor intensive process to build (and possibly paint) a bus and then blow it back apart to add the deluxe windows
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Matt Johnson

Slammed Thing
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9278729#9278729
Lifted Split Bus Build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=738403

[Brian_1952]

[Lowdown Dirty Rat]

Yes that’s how I have it Chris.
I’ve never heard the M 051 idea before but both my 51 and 52 had that M code on the birth certificates. Listed as ‘Provision for twin generators’.
My old 51 was in dove blue originally yes. Almost like it was the primer. Then it was actually yellow as it’s believed it served at the same school as the 53 Greek deluxe that still sports those colours today. I have a vintage picture which we think has both buses together parked outside the school.
This the most recent picture I have of my old 51.

I’d love to think those factory picture are a working ‘special’ section. Interesting how they seem to be doing something to the samba roofs on the deck though. Not on the buses. There is also a rear hatch Standard there too. The pickup suggests it’s quite late in the deep skylight story though if that’s when it was?
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1951 Samba 20-017894
1952 Samba 20-028952

[Lind]

I keep seeing 24 being referred to as "kombi", but wouldn't it be sunroof microbus? (either standard or deluxe) Kombi is model 23. (I know, confusing with 23 window versus model 23 being 10 or 11 window).

So some of model 24 are just model 22 with a sunroof, correct?

How do the early sunroof standard microbuses fit into this? The one in Arizona is from June 1951, and The one in Brazil is from September 1951, and has a full dash, although it is not the earliest style of full dash.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=663137

What is the earliest known sunroof kombi having ever existed? were there any of them in '51/'52?
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Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
.

[RockStock]

You’re right, Lind
24A is a LHD Standard with Sunroof, cargo doors right
(I’ve amended my posts)

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-StockRocks-

[RockStock]

[Florian Kalff]

[Brian_1952]

[Lowdown Dirty Rat]

[RockStock]

Yes, foglights are too insignificant to be written in the bowl.
My money is on there being no M51 option listed for any late model “the refined era” Barndoor Deluxe…

Florian, it is well-known on this forum that the known M-Code definitions are Split Bus era (post ‘55) - and not Barndoor-correct.

[Lazaa]

[RockStock]

Thought I’d sneak in a public request
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-StockRocks-

[Lind]

Volkswagen reused M-codes throughout production. There are plenty examples of them issuing birth certificates in the '55-'67 era where they are listing a bay window or beetle M-code description that is obviously inaccurate.
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.
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
.