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Top of cylinders in plane??
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dedhammike
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Top of cylinders in plane?? Reply with quote

Building a 2 liter type 4 engine for my bus. New crank, cam rods pistons/cylinders, heads. While checking my deck to figure compression ratio, and having the cylinders clamped down on the corners, I ran a straight edge across the top of the cylinders. On 3/4 side, I had less than .0015 gap on one edge of a cylinder. On 1/2 side, I had about .003 gap on one edge. I pulled the pistons and cylinders off and tried to ran a straight edge across, but it was too long to clear. Is this a common issue with type 4 blocks or am I looking too far. Just want my heads to seal good. I considered pulling the head studs and putting some valve lapping compound under the cylinders to try to level it out, then adjusting with my base shims.

Any advise is welcome. Thanks
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Top of cylinders in plane?? Reply with quote

Measure the length of the barrels from lower sealing surfaces to the uppers, Iv'e seen more than one set that required some lathe work to even up.
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dedhammike
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Top of cylinders in plane?? Reply with quote

Checked head side of cylinders with feeler gauge and piece of glass underneath. Then checked block side with dial indicator. They came out perfect.

Removed head studs and noticed mating surface on block near flywheel has burr on outer edge. If I put straight edge on inside of burr, everything lines up good on the case.

Plan on trying to lap cylinders into case. If that doesn't do it, I've got a 5" orbital sander to try to flatten out.

Open to other suggestions if anyone else has run into this. Thanks
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Top of cylinders in plane?? Reply with quote

dedhammike wrote:
...... If that doesn't do it, I've got a 5" orbital sander to try to flatten out. .........

Shocked Don't take a sander to the case Shocked

You can measure the cylinder lips for out od round and flatness all you like, but you need to measure the overall length of the cylinders from the top lip to the step that sits against the case and compare it to the others.
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dedhammike
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Top of cylinders in plane?? Reply with quote

I will check them all and compare. Thanks
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: Top of cylinders in plane?? Reply with quote

Normally it is done sort of like this.....

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Type 4s on the left, Type 1s on the right.
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HAM Inc
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Top of cylinders in plane?? Reply with quote

Type 4 bus cases warp. I've decked countless cases over the years and have yet to deck one that didn't need it. The spigots lean and sag. #3 is the worst offender. It will sink and lean.

A straight edge won't always tell the tale.

The best method for checking that the jugs on a bank are both on the same plane is to set them in the spigots (without the pistons installed) and lay a piece of glass or blanchard ground plate that's large enough to completely cover the tops of both jugs so you can look for gaps.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Top of cylinders in plane?? Reply with quote

HAM Inc wrote:
Type 4 bus cases warp. I've decked countless cases over the years and have yet to deck one that didn't need it. The spigots lean and sag. #3 is the worst offender. It will sink and lean.

A straight edge won't always tell the tale.

The best method for checking that the jugs on a bank are both on the same plane is to set them in the spigots (without the pistons installed) and lay a piece of glass or blanchard ground plate that's large enough to completely cover the tops of both jugs so you can look for gaps.


1) What is the spigot? The part of the case where the cylinder seats?

2) if you lay in the cylinders without first lapping the mating surfaces, would you run the risk of a false measurement?

3) If the cylinders are lapped and seated, then you place the glass to check for gaps, will the fact that the cylinders are not torqued down in the same manner as when measuring for deck height be cause for concern?
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dedhammike
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 5:42 am    Post subject: Re: Top of cylinders in plane?? Reply with quote

Thank you all. Case was definitely warped. Had a second case available that tested fine with cylinders installed. Will save this case and have it decked if needed in future.
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lil-jinx
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: Top of cylinders in plane?? Reply with quote

If the case was warped a thou or 2 would installing and torquing the heads not being it back to level.
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