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1991 Multivan TDI build
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Multiman mv
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

GreggK wrote:
Hey Nick,
I was wondering where you mounted your sensor for the digital thermometer?
Thanks!


Gregg,

So interestingly, when Fas did the conversion and installed the new accelerator pedal, there was a small hole remaining in the floor of the van from the stock pedal set up. I routed the thermometer sensor down the steering column, underneath the carpet and out the hole underneath the pedal. (Please don’t freak out people, the setup is entirely safe. In fact I was able peel up some of the dynamat that I used to sound proof the floor and tucked the wire underneath that and out the hole.) There was just enough wire to get the sensor out the hole where it dangles right above where the original spare tire would be. They don’t give you much wire to play with but I bet you could also route out one of the holes near the headlights. I seem to remember in the Fas install manual that you might be drilling a hole up there for some aspect of the install. Maybe you could go out one of those holes?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

Multiman mv wrote:
Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
That's a really attractive gauge. If I hadn't of just bought an auto-dimming mirror with compass and outside temp readout, I'd get one of those for our EV.

Have you installed your A1 PDL kit yet?


I have been slacking on installing the door lock kit. I think I’ll tackle it once the weather warms up around here.


I'll probably be installing the same kit in a '90 MV sometime in the next couple of weeks, so I'll take pics and notes of the project if I do.

I ended up mounting my temp sensor in the passenger side opening on the chin spoiler of my Vanagon. It's really accurate.

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Multiman mv
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:13 am    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
Multiman mv wrote:
Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
That's a really attractive gauge. If I hadn't of just bought an auto-dimming mirror with compass and outside temp readout, I'd get one of those for our EV.

Have you installed your A1 PDL kit yet?


I have been slacking on installing the door lock kit. I think I’ll tackle it once the weather warms up around here.


I'll probably be installing the same kit in a '90 MV sometime in the next couple of weeks, so I'll take pics and notes of the project if I do.

I ended up mounting my temp sensor in the passenger side opening on the chin spoiler of my Vanagon. It's really accurate.



For some reason I’m a little intimidated by the pdl kit though I know it’s probably not that complicated. I just want to make sure that the slider and rear hatch unlock when the front doors are unlocked with the remote. I’ll keep an eye out for the reverse polarity issue that I think someone mentioned with the slider and to make sure the rear hatch lock is synced and in the proper lock/unlocked position when using the remote. If you install your kit and have any other tips, I’d love the help. Thanks. I am looking forward to having the kit installed because right now it’s a total pita to lock or unlock my van.

Nice clean gauge install. I like the location!
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Multiman mv
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:57 am    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

Our 11 year old black lab copilot, Jem. She was the runt of her litter and weighs in at 52 pounds of pure muscle. She could sniff out a pheasant, a quail or a roughed grouse from a mile a way. Just saying the word, “bird” puts her into a whirligig tailspin.

Here she is saying, “come on dad take me to wirk with you, please, please, please.” I say, “of course just as long as you stay off the seats!”

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erste
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

Multiman mv wrote:

Well i guess I just didn’t like the height of the knob as compared to stock and it just felt big and cloddy to me. The knob is considerably higher than stock. I knew all of this before I purchased it but it just didn’t work out. Again, it is a really well made shifter but the ergonomics didn’t work for me. I have long arms and the lower, stock shifter just feels better. Pushing the high stick into reverse felt especially awkward. I’m sure it’s a case of just being accustomed to the stock setup and in this instance, change wasn’t a good thing. I probably just should have left my original setup alone. Don’t let my experience sway you against it. I know that most people who install the big shot shifter absolutely love it and feel that it’s a huge improvement over stock.


I totally understand where you're coming from there, especially with reverse. RS Fab was out of black knobs when I bought mine, so they sent the adapter. With the adapter and a stock knob it's only a few inches away from the steering wheel (the larger manual steering wheel) after you shift into reverse. I got the knob the other day and it's still close (and it is a little weird having a billiard ball for a shift knob).

Anyway, you might check out the short shift kits by Gene Berg - it's a spacer that goes under the stock shift rod / linkage.
http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=17_486_2978

Any tips on installing the RS Fab midpoint shift linkage? I just got mine in the mail yesterday.
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elizer Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

Lol I have a cocker mix and if I say bird he does a million spins and stops and stares at the nearest tree or Bush
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Multiman mv
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

erste wrote:
Multiman mv wrote:

Well i guess I just didn’t like the height of the knob as compared to stock and it just felt big and cloddy to me. The knob is considerably higher than stock. I knew all of this before I purchased it but it just didn’t work out. Again, it is a really well made shifter but the ergonomics didn’t work for me. I have long arms and the lower, stock shifter just feels better. Pushing the high stick into reverse felt especially awkward. I’m sure it’s a case of just being accustomed to the stock setup and in this instance, change wasn’t a good thing. I probably just should have left my original setup alone. Don’t let my experience sway you against it. I know that most people who install the big shot shifter absolutely love it and feel that it’s a huge improvement over stock.


I totally understand where you're coming from there, especially with reverse. RS Fab was out of black knobs when I bought mine, so they sent the adapter. With the adapter and a stock knob it's only a few inches away from the steering wheel (the larger manual steering wheel) after you shift into reverse. I got the knob the other day and it's still close (and it is a little weird having a billiard ball for a shift knob).

Anyway, you might check out the short shift kits by Gene Berg - it's a spacer that goes under the stock shift rod / linkage.
http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=17_486_2978

Any tips on installing the RS Fab midpoint shift linkage? I just got mine in the mail yesterday.


Thanks for the tip. I just started going down that path (the short shift kits) and I think it’s something I want to consider.

I do have a tip for you with the mid point linkage. Just pop the spring clips off each side of the universal joint and you can leave the spline joint alone. I guess there’s really no other sensible way to do it. The only tricky part is that the bolt that runs vertically is usually installed from the top and the spring clip is put on the bottom (I guess this is so gravity could hold the bolt in place if for some reason the spring clip went missing.) This makes it difficult to back the bolt out because there isn’t a lot of clearance above the joint. I had to flex my linkage downward a fair amount in order to get the bolt out of the universal joint. Basically, if your shift linkage is in good working order, you probably want to leave that spline joint alone if you can. You probably already know this but I just thought I’d mention it in case you haven’t had the unpleasant experience of messing around with that spline joint.
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Multiman mv
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

elizer wrote:
Lol I have a cocker mix and if I say bird he does a million spins and stops and stares at the nearest tree or Bush


You got to love that kind of enthusiasm. I’ve done a lot of bird hunting with my lab but i swear she came pre programmed to hunt birds. She didn’t even come from a bird hunting lineage but from month two, she made it clear that birds were her thing.
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Multiman mv
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:33 am    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

Here is a photo of where I routed the thermometer sensor. I had just enough slack to route the wire down the steering column, behind the carpet, under neath the dynamat and out the old hole where the stock drive by cable setup exited the body.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

Hi Nick,
I've been deciding on my insulation behind the interior panels. Can you say your happy with the insulating and sound dampening of the Dynaliner? I was looking at a few different ideas. I experimented with spray on Lizard skin products already but I still want one more line of defense.
Thanks GreggK
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:27 am    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

GreggK wrote:
Hi Nick,
I've been deciding on my insulation behind the interior panels. Can you say your happy with the insulating and sound dampening of the Dynaliner? I was looking at a few different ideas. I experimented with spray on Lizard skin products already but I still want one more line of defense.
Thanks GreggK


Gregg,

I’m definitely happy with the effort that I put into sound dampening and insulating my van. I think it has made a major difference in the amount of sound (and heat and ac retention.) I think dynamat extreme really does a great job at sound dampening. I’ve had people comment on how quiet the van is before ever knowing how much effort I put into sound dampening. Under 55 it is whisper quiet inside. The tdi can get a little louder at highway speeds though I swear that my van is getting quieter (my wife thinks so too.) just yesterday, my wife was in the passenger seat and she said, “holy crap, you’re going 72 I thought you were doing 64 (the sweet spot where we usually drive on the highway where the sound isn’t that loud. It sounded as though we were going along at a slower clip. Usually speeds above 64 and you can notice the increase in noise.) anyways, I do believe that as that tdi and transmission get broken in, the highway drone decreases.

I think that lizard skin looks like a great idea. I’ve heard great things about it. I wonder if it can also act as a rust proofing for the interior panels, though I think I remember you really went the extra mile rustproofing the interior of your van.

I guess I would recommend tackling your insulation by approaching it from two different angles - sound and thermal. I’m not too familiar with lizard skin but if it doesn’t add much thermal insulation then you might consider adding another layer of something on top of the skin? I think the ultimate combo of insulation in a van would be dynamat extreme or lizard skin with closed cell spray foam on top of that. I think closed cell would probably adhere beautifully to the lizard skin though I’m not sure it would stick to dynamat. I’ve spoken with guys who insulate the houses that we build and closed cell has about the same sound dampening properties of roxul/rock wool. It’s also impermeable to water so it wont create any moisture issues, though I imagine it could trap water if not thoughtfully applied. I rust proofed the bottom of all my panels, doors and hatches with cosmoline and left insulation off of the bottom few inches to allow for weep holes to do their job and to not create a water trap. Definitely consider that issue when applying the lizard skin. The other main advantage to closed cell is it is light when compared to some other methods. I assume that the lizard skin is probably pretty light weight also. For your front doors and headliner where one couldn’t foam, I’d definitely do the dynaliner extreme or the lizard skin. I added a half inch layer of dynamat above the headliner and added it on top of the dynamat extreme wherever I could. I think the dynaliner has definitely helped with the thermal insulation. The dynamat alone adds little to no thermal insulation. For my front doors, I did the dynamat extreme inside the door cavities and then I lined the backs of my door cards with dynamat ultra light. The doors sound like Mercedes doors when they close. No more tin can sound. I definitly added some weight to my van with all of the dynamat. I think I calculated over 100 pounds of dynamat extreme. This is also something else to consider though it is the weight of the product that gives it such great sound dampening properties.

Again, I’d say that the amount of effort that it takes to insulate is well worth it especially if you do all the areas that you can. The one really important area I have not tackled yet is the engine hatch and I know there has got to be something better out there than the stock insulation. In fact, I just ordered dynamat hoodliner and will give that a test. I’ll definitely report on what I find out after giving it a try. In short, your efforts will be rewarded if you insulate the entire van. I hope this helps.

How is the conversion going? I really like the approach you’re taking. Looks like you are really doing everything right. You will be really happy you went the extra mile when you’re finished, though I’m not sure you can ever truly be finished with a vanagon. You will probably roll into the next phase of customizing/modifying. These vans have a funny way of begging for attention from us owners. Have fun.

Nick B


Last edited by Multiman mv on Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Multiman mv
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:24 am    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

I was able to test my outside thermometer location while on a road trip yesterday. The location I chose definitly doesn’t make for accurate readings while under way. I guess I kind of assumed that heat from the radiator would affect the reading. I’m ok with it though because I don’t necessarily need an accurate temp reading while driving. I usually check the temp before starting the van up. Maybe some day, I’ll lengthen th temp probe and locate it in a location that will give a more accurate readout.

We packed up the van and hopped on a 6 am boat yesterday morning and headed for the Berkshires. We made the 3 hour drive in good time and the van performed beautifully. We usually drive in the 62 to 64mile an hour range yet yesterday we were able to drive it comfortably around 70 to 72 mph without it getting too loud. We went kind of blind without booking a place to stay and decided to check out the town of Great Barrington. Great little town with plenty of places to eat and fun shops. After a great lunch and checking out the Butternut ski area we found a great inn in Stockbridge just down the road from Great Barrington. We rented a little detached sweet just behind the main inn. It’s a beautiful, old Victorian building complete with tiger maple four post bed and even a heated, outdoor pool and hot tub nearby. I wonder what their propane bill is like? We are spending Sunday and Monday teaching the kids to ski. This is their very first time. It should be a fun couple of days!

Last night we went to the Great Barrington Brewery to go sample some of the local brews and dinner (the beers were good but the food was...) and afterwards while approaching the parked van, a car parked two spaces away, which had four, 20 somethings inside, rolled down the window while potent herbaceous smoke billowed out the window and the driver said, “oh man, is that your van? That thing is dope. That is sick man, so sick!” He went on and on, while a guy in the back kept saying “seriously” to everything the guy in the drivers seat was saying. It was pretty hilarious. It was like a scene from Dazed and Confused. I had a similar incident in Vermont a few years back where two guys came up to van dropping F bombs left and right while exclaiming how “bad ass” our van was. My kids were laughing but then proceeded to drop f bombs while imitating the guys. Needless to say I wasn’t too amused.

It’s always fun to see and hear someone appreciate the work that has gone into the van.

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One of the Berkshires giant sycamore trees. Western Massachusetts has some mighty hardwoods and is known for large sycamores. While heading up the chair lift, my wife and I were marveling at the variety of trees. Yellow birch, white birch, big tooth aspen, beech, butternut, black walnut, tulip poplar, shagbark hickory, Black cherry, different varieties of oaks, eastern hemlock, spruce, white pine, hop hornbeam and giant sycamores. A tree lovers dream (and a cabinet makers dream.) The widest tree east of the Mississippi resides in Sunderland Mass and is a Sycamore known as the “Buttonball tree” because of the ball like seed pods that it drops. The tree has a girth of over 24 feet and still growing. It is estimated to be between 350 and 400 years old. I’ve scene this specimen in person and it is truly a majestic tree. This one below, while not that big, was still an impressive specimen.

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Last edited by Multiman mv on Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:41 am; edited 3 times in total
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GreggK
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

Hey Nick,
Thanks for the input. I've been trying different Dynamat products. On my last van I used the Monstaliner on the interior floors from just behind the front seats all the way to the back of the van. I then used Dynapad on top of that in the middle with a piece of 3/4 plywood thru bolted to the floor with the Monstaliner applied to the wood as well sandwiching the Dynapad That was my first attempt at sound proofing a van and it was pretty effective but I didn't like the idea of drilling through the floor. I would also take two people to fasten and un-fasten the wood. I also think I used Second skin dampening pads on the floor in the front of that van.
back in the fire wall I used a product from Jegs called "Cool it". That was thermo and acoustical adhesive backed product. I think it worked well but I didn't have anything to compare any of it to. I even put some of the left over "Cool It" behind the radiator where the heater valve was. I've never used anything in the body panels beside R-30 fiberglass insulation.
On my current van I've already sprayed some of the Lizardskin sound control in the body cavities. I also used the sound control and their ceramic insulation spray up in the firewall area but I'm skeptical so I still want to try to add something else , maybe the Dynamat hoodliner. I put some of that up behind the radiator and have a bunch left over.
When I saw you were using the Dynaliner I looked it up and thought you were on the right path so thanks for the advice.
As for my conversion, its crawling along. Weather and work keep me from making the progress I'd like to be making but each time I get out there its always positive. I was really getting carried away with the Smallcar A/C install so I decided to just make the system function and deal with the aesthetics of it later. When I'm up and running I'll be taking a trip up the coast to see Jon and company. I'll hit you up and maybe meet up in person.
Take care, GreggK
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

FYI re: sound deadening and insulation

https://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com
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Multiman mv
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

Im looking forward to delving into that sound deadening showdown link. Thank you very much for the info.

A great day skiing with the wife and kids. I was so proud of my little ones. Both of them fearless and proficient. I guess it’s been all the scootering and surfing that has helped their balance. It was a great day. I was most impressed with my wife’s snowboarding abilities. It has been a while but, she ripped. My skiing was a little rusty though I was never that good at it. I know just enough about skiing to have fun with it.

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Our beloved Vanagon looks so small compared to this beast of a sports mobile we spotted at the car wash.

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Last edited by Multiman mv on Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

GreggK wrote:
Hey Nick,
Thanks for the input. I've been trying different Dynamat products. On my last van I used the Monstaliner on the interior floors from just behind the front seats all the way to the back of the van. I then used Dynapad on top of that in the middle with a piece of 3/4 plywood thru bolted to the floor with the Monstaliner applied to the wood as well sandwiching the Dynapad That was my first attempt at sound proofing a van and it was pretty effective but I didn't like the idea of drilling through the floor. I would also take two people to fasten and un-fasten the wood. I also think I used Second skin dampening pads on the floor in the front of that van.
back in the fire wall I used a product from Jegs called "Cool it". That was thermo and acoustical adhesive backed product. I think it worked well but I didn't have anything to compare any of it to. I even put some of the left over "Cool It" behind the radiator where the heater valve was. I've never used anything in the body panels beside R-30 fiberglass insulation.
On my current van I've already sprayed some of the Lizardskin sound control in the body cavities. I also used the sound control and their ceramic insulation spray up in the firewall area but I'm skeptical so I still want to try to add something else , maybe the Dynamat hoodliner. I put some of that up behind the radiator and have a bunch left over.
When I saw you were using the Dynaliner I looked it up and thought you were on the right path so thanks for the advice.
As for my conversion, its crawling along. Weather and work keep me from making the progress I'd like to be making but each time I get out there its always positive. I was really getting carried away with the Smallcar A/C install so I decided to just make the system function and deal with the aesthetics of it later. When I'm up and running I'll be taking a trip up the coast to see Jon and company. I'll hit you up and maybe meet up in person.
Take care, GreggK


Sounds great Gregg. Definitely keep me in the loop. We are contemplating a trip up to Maine sometime late summer and I’ll probably give FAS a visit too. I feel like I owe those guys at least a beer if not a few. Jon has been super supportive. He’s just a friendly guy who is super passionate about what he does and he stands behind his work 150%. More people in business should run their companies like Jon does. I really don’t think there is a better program out there. I am really interested to see what sort of innovations they bring in the future. I can only imagine which direction their engine conversions will head towards. Good luck with things and I along with many, will be following your progress and routing for you.

Nick


Last edited by Multiman mv on Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Multiman mv
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

T3 Pilot wrote:
FYI re: sound deadening and insulation

https://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com


Wow! Great site with some serious sound deadening techniques and products. I kind of wish I had known about this site prior to insulating my van. GreggK you should definitely check this out (I’m sure you already have.) It sounds like the company will do a little consulting and come up with a plan of attack for sound dampening any specific vehicle. It would be well worth it to send these guys an email and see what they have to say. Thanks again for the link.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

I use Soundeadner showdown exclusively for all of my vehicles and customers, great products and great service
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:01 am    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

Farfromslow wrote:
I use Soundeadner showdown exclusively for all of my vehicles and customers, great products and great service


I’ve had a little more time to browse that website. I actually just ordered a trunk cargo area acoustic barrier mat from the site. I did notice that they sell some closed cell foam products and that they mention it has no acoustic value. Their product is only 1/8” thick and I think it is meant to be used as an in between layer with some of their other products and can be used as a rattle stop layer. I’ve always heard that closed cell is pretty good at blocking sound. Maybe it’s a decent sound barrier but only when it is much thicker like when it is sprayed into walls built out of 2x6s. I do like the idea of spray foaming panels and body cavaties in a van. I wonder if anyone has done it and if so, I wonder how it has performed. I did stumble upon one thread where someone was planning on spray foaming with closed cell but I don’t think they ever posted their opinion on how they thought the foam performed.

Any ways, that sound deadener showdown site looks like they have some serious solutions to sound dampening.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:40 am    Post subject: Re: 1991 Multivan TDI build Reply with quote

Yes that 1/8” closed cell is used between a panel and the mass loaded vinyl as a break which helps to prevent the transmission of noise mainly due to vibration, the MLV is what really reflects the sound and yes it does work. They also carry a hydrophobic foam which can be used in voids such as A-pillars and behind panels that does a good job. I also use something called a black hole tile in those areas that I believe works wonderfully.
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