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markj60616 Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013 Posts: 130 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:24 am Post subject: Distributor 113905205AD / Pierburg Fuel Pump reurbish |
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I have a 1970 Beetle that was always well taken care of and preserved. It is not a barn find nor has it ever sat dormant for years. It was always driven about 2,000 miles per year. It is a California car. It is an autostick. It is in original condition. Factory original paint, interior, and engine. The engine has never been removed from the car and it is, by German “birth certificate,” the original engine number for the car. The engine has 112,000 miles. The car was featured (along with my “twin” 2014 Beetle) in issue 5 (Summer 2017) of VolksAmerica magazine.
More to the point, two non-original things were done to this car in 2003 by the previous owner: an aftermarket Brazilian fuel pump (with no circlips on the rod!...and engine bay filter!) was added along with a Bosch 009 distributor with CompuFire electronic ignition. The car has no drivability issues or flat spot with this combination. However, since the car is so original I felt it was deserving and time to get a Pierburg fuel pump back on and get the correct distributor back on as well.
Engine bay before:
Not trusting the reviews I’ve read about the quality of the Pierburg fuel pump rebuild kits currently available and not wanting a fire, I decided to go with a reputable rebuilder and ordered a rebuilt Pierburg fuel pump for my car.
Rebuilt Pierburg fuel pump:
However, I decided to do the distributor first and drive it a few weeks before changing the fuel pump so that if there are any issues they would be easier to diagnose.
Luckily, the previous owner included the original distributor in a box with the car. The original distributor is a VW 113 905 205 AD which is the correct distributor for my 1970 autostick Beetle. This is a DVDA distributor (with 0 degree timing specs) which many people don’t realize were used on the early autosticks before they were used on the manuals. (I’m not sure why this was done…perhaps it had something to do with the way an autostick drives with one big “wind-up” from 0 to 40 mph before the first shift…or perhaps it was because the autosticks did not have the dashpot/throttle positioner that the manual 1970 Beetles had and required the DVDA for emissions. As mentioned, my Beetle was originally from CA and included CA emissions as a line item on its German “birth certificate” and the code for it is still readable in the option code handwriting in the trunk on the metal above the fuel tank.) My car has the original Solex 30 PICT-3 carburetor (rebuilt in 2000) with flange number VW 227-1 which matches the distributor 113905205AD. The previous owner told me the distributor was removed from the car due to a bad vacuum can. I was able to find an exact NOS replacement (can 07083 with arm 811.)
Distributor 113905205AD:
Solex 30 PICT-3 with flange number VW 227-1:
NOS vacuum can 07 083 (1 237 121 811) with arm 811:
NOS vacuum can box!:
Below I have added a scan of info that applies to this set-up that I have cut and pasted from various charts found on this site during my recent research with a few of my own cross-referenced notes added for completion purposes:
My sources for the above included the following:
http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm#A1970A
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/Bosch_Tune_Up_Parts/Bosch_Tune_Up_Parts.pdf
Bentley manual
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/776056.jpg
http://members.trainorders.com/android/vw/30PICTs.jpg
I decided to test the distributor as-is with the NOS replacement vacuum canister. I gapped the points and installed it in the car. I timed it to 0 degrees at 850 rpms with both hoses disconnected. (EDIT- I later learned from response to this thread that this was incorrect info that I obtained from the Old Volks Home website...if this distributor applies to you, read on) With both hoses plugged, it advanced to around 30 degrees at 3500 rpms. With the vacuum advance hose connected, it advanced to about 40 degrees at 3500 rpms. I drove the car around the block and I really liked the peppy acceleration! Although, as mentioned, I wasn’t having any drivability issues with my Bosch 009 it certainly did not have the more perfect feel of this original arrangement that I was now experiencing. The only issue was that the advance plates were sort of sticky and this was more noticeable as the engine heated up. I decided the test was successful enough to have the original distributor professionally rebuilt.
I contacted Glenn Ring (known distributor expert and moderator of this forum.) He responded to me the same day but regretfully informed me that he does not rebuild this type of distributor. Having a good deal of mechanical and distributor experience myself, I decided to give the rebuild a try. I guess I can’t really call it a rebuild, it was more of a "freshening up." Since the distributor itself was hardly used, I decided to just take it apart, examine it, clean it, and grease it. The advance plates certainly were gummy as was most of the top part of the distributor. I did not disassemble the centrifugal advance portion of the distributor as it looked clean and operational. I did install a CompuFire electronic ignition module. Although this is certainly not in the spirit of originality and does not provide the built-in cylinder 3 retard that the single port engine distributors were designed to have, I personally prefer the more stable timing setting that the electronic ignition provides.
distributor before:
distributor re-freshening:
With ignition points and condenser:
Deciding to go with CompuFire:
Finished and ready to install:
I may or may not continue to keep the vacuum retard line hooked up. I’ve heard that retarding the idle timing is great for emissions but increases the operating temperature. Any input on this? If I permanently disconnected the retard line, I would still time the distributor the same, as mentioned above, at 0 degrees at 850 rpms (both retard and advance hoses disconnected) which results in a centrifugal advance of around 30 at 3500 rpms. With the vacuum advance connected (and retard disconnected and plugged at carburetor) the advance is 40 degrees at 3500 rpms. The only difference is that I would have to adjust the idle a bit lower with the retard line permanently disconnected. Does this sound OK/correct? I usually run the car at about 1100 rpms at idle (in neutral...which results in around 950 rpms in gear) which I believe is correct for an autostick.
Long story short: The engine bay looks great and the car runs great with noticeable improvements to acceleration.
Engine bay after:
The acceleration feels more “immediate” than before. From a historical perspective, I think the car is thankful! I certainly am thankful to everyone who read this post this far! I am also thankful to the Samba forum where a great deal of my informational research took place. This research gave me the documentation and confidence to attempt this important restorative action for my Beetle.
Update: After a few weeks of testing the distributor with no issues arising, it was time to install the period correct fuel pump and remove that dangerous engine bay fuel filter.
I am very proud of the finished product of these two restorative actions (original distributor rebuild and re-install and period correct fuel pump install) that I took on behalf of my Beetle!!
Restorative Actions complete...Compare to engine bay photo at start of thread:
_________________ 1970 Type 1
original paint
original interior
original engine
1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
original engine 2.0L FI
2014 Beetle 2.5L
Last edited by markj60616 on Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:22 am; edited 6 times in total |
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gt1953 Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13846 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install |
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Very nice work and having it correct. The engineers @ VW knew what they were doing. _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15982 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install |
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First let me say, "Sweet ride!" Your engine bay is nice and clean.
markj60616 wrote: |
I may or may not continue to keep the vacuum retard line hooked up. I’ve heard that retarding the idle timing is great for emissions but increases the operating temperature. Any input on this? |
Generally yes. The idle retard results in hotter exhaust port temps which contribute to continued burning of any un-burnt fuel in the exhaust before it is released out the tail pipes.
markj60616 wrote: |
If I permanently disconnected the retard line, I would still time the distributor the same, as mentioned above, at 0 degrees at 850 rpms (both retard and advance hoses disconnected) which results in a centrifugal advance of around 30 at 3500 rpms. With the vacuum advance connected (and retard disconnected and plugged at carburetor) the advance is 40 degrees at 3500 rpms. The only difference is that I would have to adjust the idle a bit lower with the retard line permanently disconnected. Does this sound OK/correct? I usually run the car at about 1100 rpms at idle (in neutral...which results in around 950 rpms in gear) which I believe is correct for an autostick. |
You should NOT time the distributor the same (TDC @idle) when disconnecting the vacuum retard.
Do this to test your distributor....
Set the idle timing as recommended for your distributor: TDC with BOTH hoses connected. This means vacuum retard will be active at idle. The TDC value is a combination of ~7BTDC static timing AND vacuum retard removing around 7deg of timing at idle. The result is a TDC idle timing.
After you have idle timing at TDC, disconnect and plug the distributor end of the vacuum retard hose. You should see the timing advance 6-8deg and the idle rpms should go up a little. So the timing should now read around 7BTDC. This shows that your vacuum retard WAS removing around 7deg of timing at idle. What ever your idle timing is now should become your NEW idle timing if running your distributor as an SVDA (vacuum retard disconnected). You can check (not change) the mechanical advance, making sure it does NOT exceed 32BTDC with both hoses disconnected and plugged. There is no need to increase the total timing , just make sure it does NOT exceed the max safe limit (32BTDC). If you are getting the specified range of mechanical advance you are fine.
Plugging the vacuum advance hose in at these higher rpms will test that it is working. You should see the timing advance some, but there is no spec for how much at these higher rpms (vacuum varies), just make sure it advances. If you really want to test your vacuum advance, use a hand pump and confirm at idle that when you apply vacuum to the can the extra advance provided by the vacuum advance maxes out in the range specified (8-12deg). _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
Last edited by ashman40 on Thu May 25, 2017 7:40 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Frank Bassman Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2012 Posts: 893 Location: Miami
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:38 am Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install |
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Keep the retard. In my manual bug I ran the DVDA instead of SVDA and noticed better overall performance. It did not run excessively hot either. If all is set up rigjt it will be perfectly fine. In my current application I run Svda because I have to but I prefer DVDA.
I know your dist is slightly different but the nature of the beast is the same. Beautiful motor by the way.
-Frank |
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markj60616 Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013 Posts: 130 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install |
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ashman40 wrote: |
First let me say, "Sweet ride!" Your engine bay is nice and clean.
markj60616 wrote: |
I may or may not continue to keep the vacuum retard line hooked up. I’ve heard that retarding the idle timing is great for emissions but increases the operating temperature. Any input on this? |
Generally yes. The idle retard results in hotter exhaust port temps which contribute to continued burning of any un-burnt fuel in the exhaust before it is released out the tail pipes.
markj60616 wrote: |
If I permanently disconnected the retard line, I would still time the distributor the same, as mentioned above, at 0 degrees at 850 rpms (both retard and advance hoses disconnected) which results in a centrifugal advance of around 30 at 3500 rpms. With the vacuum advance connected (and retard disconnected and plugged at carburetor) the advance is 40 degrees at 3500 rpms. The only difference is that I would have to adjust the idle a bit lower with the retard line permanently disconnected. Does this sound OK/correct? I usually run the car at about 1100 rpms at idle (in neutral...which results in around 950 rpms in gear) which I believe is correct for an autostick. |
You should NOT time the distributor the same (TDC @idle) when disconnecting the vacuum retard.
Do this to test your distributor....
Set the idle timing as recommended for your distributor: TDC with BOTH hoses connected. This means vacuum retard will be active at idle. The TDC value is a combination of ~7BTDC static timing AND vacuum retard removing around 7deg of timing at idle. The result is a TDC idle timing.
After you have idle timing at TDC, disconnect and plug the distributor end of the vacuum retard hose. You should see the timing advance 6-8deg and the idle rpms should go up a little. So the timing should now read around 7BTDC. This shows that your vacuum retard WAS removing around 7deg of timing at idle. What ever your idle timing is now should become your NEW idle timing if running your distributor as an SVDA (vacuum retard disconnected). You can check (not change) the mechanical advance, making sure it does NOT exceed 32BTDC with both hoses disconnected and plugged. There is no need to increase the total timing , just make sure it does NOT exceed the max safe limit (32BTDC). If you are getting the specified range of mechanical advance you are fine.
Plugging the vacuum advance hose in at these higher rpms will test that it is working. You should see the timing advance some, but there is no spec for how much at these higher rpms (vacuum varies), just make sure it advances. If you really want to test your vacuum advance, use a hand pump and confirm at idle that when you apply vacuum to the can the extra advance provided by the vacuum advance maxes out in the range specified (8-12deg). |
Thanks for the reply! I have been confused about this because the timing instructions say 0TDC with hose disconnected and plugged. Several Samba threads exist about 1970 autostick people wondering what to do with this info since we have DVDAs with 2 hoses. I always felt the instructions meant that all 1970 engines were timed at 0 with hose or hoses detached. I will certainly try your method as it was my fall-back plan. I'm hoping for even better acceleration, then, if I time it your way. Thanks for the valuable insight!! _________________ 1970 Type 1
original paint
original interior
original engine
1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
original engine 2.0L FI
2014 Beetle 2.5L |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install |
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Wow- very nice original specimen!
One thing regarding setting timing on these early autosticks-
the Old Volks Home page is WRONG with regard to setting timing with hose(s) disconnected for the AD and AE DVDA distributors. They apparently took that info from the earlier P or AA autostick distributors which were SVDA and so only ran one vacuum advance hose. This was the source of much confusion for me for a long time since I am running the AE distributor.
The correct timing for the AD and AE DVDA autostick distributors is 0° TDC with both hoses connected just like on the later DVDA distributors that were timed to 5° ATDC. From one of my earlier threads where I was having trouble and trying to diagnose;
mr. lang wrote: |
So I think this is the current situation quoted from your other thread:
sb001 wrote: |
One poster on here suggested I remove my autostick control valve and dismantle it, thinking that HAD to be the cause. But I did, I checked it, cleaned it, and put it back together and no change. I also added a vacuum retard hose from my distributor to my carburetor, which I didn't have installed before (I was running a DVDA as an SVDA) but it didn't help either, and some samba members told me it's fine to run a DVDA as an SVDA so I didn't really think that would help anyway.
I had another poster actually come by in person and swap distributors out and it ran OK for a trip around the block but of course it wasn't really warmed up good and toasty yet so it started doing it again after they left.
On top of all that I am really confused about my timing--Old Volks Home says to time my AE distributor at 0 TDC with ONE vacuum hose removed, but there are supposed to be TWO. Also it gives the correct vacuum canister for my distributor to be 07138, but the Bosch chart lists it as 07083.
There is a lot of conflicting info about my car and problems that nobody can fix. My car is really unreliable and it goes against what I hear from people on the samba that they are really reliable. I'd be appreciative if someone can fix my car, I want to make it a daily driver. thanks in advance |
Your 113905205AE distributor (Bosch 0 231 167 029/030) did come with a 1 237 121 837 (short 07138) vacuum canister.
The 07083 (long 1 237 121 811) vacuum canister was only mounted at the 0 231 167 012/013 (VW 113905205AD) distributor.
If you search for 113905205AE in the Bosch chart list and take the second find, you get the 07138 as a result.
In the workshop manual, both distributors were used during the same timespan for the 1600 B single port engine and can be replaced with each other.
Both distributors and canisters have the same curve.
Mechanical advance: begin 1050-1200rpm, 13-15° at 1700rpm, 13-16° at 2200rpm, end 25-28° at 3900rpm
Vacuum advance: begin 70-120mmHg (1.35-2.32psi), end 8-12° at 240mmHg (4.64psi)
Vacuum retard: begin 60-100mmHg (1.16-1.93psi), end 6-8° at 170mmHg (3.29psi)
Both must be timed at 0° with both vacuum hoses connected.
This is from the original german workshop manual and the Bosch spare parts lists, so you can stop worrying about this.
|
Note from this info above that your distributor applies a vacuum advance of around 8-12° and a vacuum retard of around 6-8°. Vacuum advance is not really present at idle, so it doesn't really matter that much whether you have that hose connected or disconnected while setting timing. BUT, the vacuum retard signal IS present at idle, so if you timed to 0° TDC with both hoses disconnected, and then reconnected your hoses, your timing would actually drop to around 6-8° ATDC!
By the same token, if you set your distributor to 0° TDC with both hoses connected, as you should, and then removed and plugged the retard hose--the timing would jump up to 6-8° BTDC.
So, if you decide you want to run your distributor without the vacuum retard hose conencted (i.e. basically running your distributor as an SVDA) then you need to set your timing at idle to 7.5 BTDC. This would take into account the fact that there is no vacuum retard signal poresent at idle and it would still be timed correctly.
Last edited by sb001 on Thu May 25, 2017 8:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install |
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EDIT--sorry ashman already covered lots of this info while I was off trying to find that original post from Mr. Lang |
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markj60616 Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013 Posts: 130 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install |
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sb001 wrote: |
Wow- very nice original specimen!
One thing regarding setting timing on these early autosticks-
the Old Volks Home page is WRONG with regard to setting timing with hose(s) disconnected for the AD and AE DVDA distributors. They apparently took that info from the earlier P or AA autostick distributors which were SVDA and so only ran one vacuum advance hose. This was the source of much confusion for me for a long time since I am running the AE distributor.
The correct timing for the AD and AE DVDA autostick distributors is 0° TDC with both hoses connected just like on the later DVDA distributors that were timed to 5° ATDC. From one of my earlier threads where I was having trouble and trying to diagnose;
mr. lang wrote: |
So I think this is the current situation quoted from your other thread:
sb001 wrote: |
One poster on here suggested I remove my autostick control valve and dismantle it, thinking that HAD to be the cause. But I did, I checked it, cleaned it, and put it back together and no change. I also added a vacuum retard hose from my distributor to my carburetor, which I didn't have installed before (I was running a DVDA as an SVDA) but it didn't help either, and some samba members told me it's fine to run a DVDA as an SVDA so I didn't really think that would help anyway.
I had another poster actually come by in person and swap distributors out and it ran OK for a trip around the block but of course it wasn't really warmed up good and toasty yet so it started doing it again after they left.
On top of all that I am really confused about my timing--Old Volks Home says to time my AE distributor at 0 TDC with ONE vacuum hose removed, but there are supposed to be TWO. Also it gives the correct vacuum canister for my distributor to be 07138, but the Bosch chart lists it as 07083.
There is a lot of conflicting info about my car and problems that nobody can fix. My car is really unreliable and it goes against what I hear from people on the samba that they are really reliable. I'd be appreciative if someone can fix my car, I want to make it a daily driver. thanks in advance |
Your 113905205AE distributor (Bosch 0 231 167 029/030) did come with a 1 237 121 837 (short 07138) vacuum canister.
The 07083 (long 1 237 121 811) vacuum canister was only mounted at the 0 231 167 012/013 (VW 113905205AD) distributor.
If you search for 113905205AE in the Bosch chart list and take the second find, you get the 07138 as a result.
In the workshop manual, both distributors were used during the same timespan for the 1600 B single port engine and can be replaced with each other.
Both distributors and canisters have the same curve.
Mechanical advance: begin 1050-1200rpm, 13-15° at 1700rpm, 13-16° at 2200rpm, end 25-28° at 3900rpm
Vacuum advance: begin 70-120mmHg (1.35-2.32psi), end 8-12° at 240mmHg (4.64psi)
Vacuum retard: begin 60-100mmHg (1.16-1.93psi), end 6-8° at 170mmHg (3.29psi)
Both must be timed at 0° with both vacuum hoses connected.
This is from the original german workshop manual and the Bosch spare parts lists, so you can stop worrying about this.
|
Note from this info above that your distributor applies a vacuum advance of around 8-12° and a vacuum retard of around 6-8°. Vacuum advance is not really present at idle, so it doesn't really matter that much whether you have that hose connected or disconnected while setting timing. BUT, the vacuum retard signal IS present at idle, so if you timed to 0° TDC with both hoses disconnected, and then reconnected your hoses, your timing would actually drop to around 6-8° ATDC!
By the same token, if you set your distributor to 0° TDC with both hoses connected, as you should, and then removed and plugged the retard hose--the timing would jump up to 6-8° BTDC.
So, if you decide you want to run your distributor without the vacuum retard hose conencted (i.e. basically running your distributor as an SVDA) then you need to set your timing at idle to 7.5 BTDC. This would take into account the fact that there is no vacuum retard signal poresent at idle and it would still be timed correctly. |
Thank you for this valuable insight and information. This seems to affirm what ashman40 posted. This is what I was hoping to clarify. _________________ 1970 Type 1
original paint
original interior
original engine
1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
original engine 2.0L FI
2014 Beetle 2.5L |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install |
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Just out of curiosity, what is the serial number on your engine? |
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markj60616 Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013 Posts: 130 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install |
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sb001 wrote: |
Just out of curiosity, what is the serial number on your engine? |
B6 195 086
_________________ 1970 Type 1
original paint
original interior
original engine
1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
original engine 2.0L FI
2014 Beetle 2.5L |
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Q-Dog Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 8699 Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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markj60616 Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013 Posts: 130 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install |
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Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions. Based on the corrected info supplied by ashman40 and sb001, I timed the car at 0TDC with both vacuum hoses connected. The centrifugal advance now takes it to just about 32 at 3800rpms with both hoses disconnected and plugged. With the vacuum advance hose connected, the advance goes out to 41. At idle, if I disconnect the retard hose it goes to 7.5. I think everything is under control! Although the car ran OK with my previously misinterpreted settings it now perfectly! There is an accelerative pickup in the 0 to 10 mph range that was never there before. Even uphill the car seems to have more power and run quieter. It doesn't seem to be working as hard as before with the 009 distributor. I've been listening for pinging and as of yet I haven't heard anything unusual.
I also changed out the red Bosch cap for a new black Bosch cap I had on hand. I also ordered some black braided 4.5mm hose which came in today so I installed that in place of the usual green.
_________________ 1970 Type 1
original paint
original interior
original engine
1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
original engine 2.0L FI
2014 Beetle 2.5L |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15982 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install |
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Very nice!!!!
I do have one suggestion for you....
Some will tell you to move the fuel filter from between the fuel pump and the carb. I will just suggest that "if you leave it where it is" you do the following:
1) Make sure all hose connections have hose clamps snugly installed so the hoses do not easily pull free from their connections. This includes the inlet fitting at the top of the carb.
2) Check that the inlet fitting at the top of the carb is tightly pressed into the carb top. Over decades of vibration it is possible for this brass tube to pop out of the press fit into the carb top. The extra weight of the fuel filter also works to loosen the pressed fit. If it is at all loose... remove it, tap the carb opening for the proper NPT thread and install a barbed/flanged threaded fitting for the hose. The thread on fitting will not vibrate loose (install w/ teflon tape or red loctite) and will give a better place for the hose and clamp to grab.
3) The weight of the fuel filter and the fuel in the filter will work to pull the hose off the carb fitting (or pull the fitting out from the carb). Install some type of support to carry the weight of the fuel filter. Some will screw a clamp to the fan shroud and clamp the hose there before it reaches the carb. This supports the weight and works to make sure the hose remains attached to the carb.
Alternatively, you can safety wire the hose clamp at the carb to prevent the hose, clamp or fitting from coming loose.
_________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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markj60616 Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013 Posts: 130 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install |
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I like the "strap" idea. Clever. But the fuel filter is on its way out! A rebuilt Pierburg original is going in its place as mentioned at the start of the thread. Since those have the internal filter, (along with the screen in the tank) I'll feel more comfortable eliminating the engine bay filter for good! _________________ 1970 Type 1
original paint
original interior
original engine
1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
original engine 2.0L FI
2014 Beetle 2.5L |
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markj60616 Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013 Posts: 130 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install |
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Frank Bassman wrote: |
Keep the retard. In my manual bug I ran the DVDA instead of SVDA and noticed better overall performance. It did not run excessively hot either. If all is set up rigjt it will be perfectly fine. In my current application I run Svda because I have to but I prefer DVDA.
I know your dist is slightly different but the nature of the beast is the same. Beautiful motor by the way.
-Frank |
Are you comparing two different distributors or the same distributor? In other words are you comparing running a DVDA as a DVDA and then as a SVDA or are you comparing running either a DVDA and a separate different SVDA? _________________ 1970 Type 1
original paint
original interior
original engine
1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
original engine 2.0L FI
2014 Beetle 2.5L |
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markj60616 Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013 Posts: 130 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install - UPDATE |
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I updated my original thread with a photo of the finished restorative actions. For those not wanting to read the full story again here is the photo:
_________________ 1970 Type 1
original paint
original interior
original engine
1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
original engine 2.0L FI
2014 Beetle 2.5L |
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Floating VW Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2015 Posts: 1596 Location: The South Zone
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install - UPDATE |
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Very nice, man. There can't be too many of us left that still have the original engines in their cars!
Just one thing I would do different: the sock in the tank and the screen in the pump are good for catching the big stuff, but I'd feel a lot better if I had a proper fuel filter somewhere in the line.
Once again, nice work! _________________ "It's time you started treating people as individuals, rather than mathematically predictable members of an aggregate set, regardless of how well that works." |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12721 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install - UPDATE |
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Hi there! Excellent job refreshing the original parts and getting your car back to stock snuff; I think you've already realized how smooth and fun these cars can be. I don't see this question answered yet-
markj60616 wrote: |
I may or may not continue to keep the vacuum retard line hooked up. I’ve heard that retarding the idle timing is great for emissions but increases the operating temperature. Any input on this? If I permanently disconnected the retard line, I would still time the distributor the same, as mentioned above, at 0 degrees at 850 rpms (both retard and advance hoses disconnected) which results in a centrifugal advance of around 30 at 3500 rpms. With the vacuum advance connected (and retard disconnected and plugged at carburetor) the advance is 40 degrees at 3500 rpms. The only difference is that I would have to adjust the idle a bit lower with the retard line permanently disconnected. Does this sound OK/correct? I usually run the car at about 1100 rpms at idle (in neutral...which results in around 950 rpms in gear) which I believe is correct for an autostick. |
Leaving the retarded idle timing and hose setup in place will not heat up the engine while it is being driven. The retarded idle timing map only comes into play when the car is idling, and the heat generated is only in the exhaust system. Since the combustion action is happening later, the actual flame front continues out the exhaust manifolds and keeps the pipes hot. This is perceived as "extra heat" by meat/flesh human beings because we can't feel inside the cylinders. In real life applications, the air-cooled VW engine does not care about combustion temperature at idle, because we don't drive our cars at idle. As soon as you step on the accelerator pedal, the retarded timing is drawn up by the vacuum and mechanical advance, and you're back in the range of every other distributor timing map. So if you cross a desert in the summer at idle, consider removing it and retuning, otherwise, enjoy your car the way Volkswagen designed it. You're a member of a SMALL club of people who get that joy.
I'll see you on the road; enjoy!
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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markj60616 Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013 Posts: 130 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install - UPDATE |
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Thanks for the compliments! I currently have the retard can hooked up and at this point have no plans to disconnect it! _________________ 1970 Type 1
original paint
original interior
original engine
1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
original engine 2.0L FI
2014 Beetle 2.5L |
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Back to top |
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markj60616 Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013 Posts: 130 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Original distributor 113-905-205AD re-install - UPDATE |
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Floating VW wrote: |
Very nice, man. There can't be too many of us left that still have the original engines in their cars!
Just one thing I would do different: the sock in the tank and the screen in the pump are good for catching the big stuff, but I'd feel a lot better if I had a proper fuel filter somewhere in the line.
Once again, nice work! |
Thanks for the compliments and suggestions! _________________ 1970 Type 1
original paint
original interior
original engine
1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
original engine 2.0L FI
2014 Beetle 2.5L |
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Back to top |
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