1st time auto-tranny drop - Replacing TC seal/bushing

[mcgoverner]

Looking for some advice/help dropping the auto-tranny and replacing the TC seal on an 89' GL -

The symptoms:

-high ATF read and decent leak coming from the bell housing (leak only occurs while running)
-spraying/slinging ATF in the engine bay
-no burnt smell, no apparent mixing of gear oil (fairly clean ATF

for a more full picture of arriving at this stage, see this ( my previous post https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8456197#8456197 )

I'm in Whitehorse, YT - drove on it 900 miles from Homer and she is still shifting smoothly - brought it to a shop here where they quoted me 8hr. @ $105/hr. - Now I know that they are probably good people, and that they aren't rollin in the dough either, but there's something in me that gets sick at the thought of spending 840 bucks on labor for a $20 part - I simply don't have that just laying around -

From what I can gather on here, dropping the tranny is fairly straightforward - Are there any good links to topics on this already, I can't seem to dig one up ? And do folks have any other suggestions while i'm in there? parts to order?

The good part for now is that I'm about to head into the bush for the next month and plan on doing the work when I get back, so I'm just trying to gather the right info to order parts so they're here on the back end - Having a hard time tracking down a TC seal and bushing (gowesty and rockauto are sold out)...

Thanks for the advice!

C

[mikemtnbike]

When I goofed up and had to ask some TC questions, this thread ended up pretty well covering the TC seal replacement, including alternate sources for the part.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664978&highlight=

I suggest two other things not in Ben's video:

1) Get a cheap seal puller to extract the old seal.

2) If you do get one of the hard-walled seals as available from GW or using the NAPA alternative and the seal you remove is the hard-walled original, use the old seal to press in the new one. I was having a bear of time getting good alignment until I tried this, went real easy after.
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual

[mcgoverner]

Right on, thanks mikemtnbike, great lead -

How difficult is it to get the actual tranny dropped to be able to do the seal replacement? That's where I'm a bit unsure - 4 bolts on the bell housing, and...? Sounds like I'll need a jack and an extra hand... but what about at the other end of the tranny? and at the rear diff? in Ben's video it looks like everything else is left in tact and that the torque converter itself is the only thing that needs physical removal... That seems pretty straightforward, but is it? and how about the TC bushing, should I bother replacing?

Thanks y'all -

[kourt]

I've done a full transaxle drop, seal replacement, and reinstall in four hours, alone.

put the van on ramps
fabricate a winch from 2x4 and a boat winch, like this:

disconnect CV joints at the transaxle and hang the axles up out of the way with zip ties
remove three torque converter bolts through the port (rotate the engine to access each bolt)
attach the winch to the opening in the top of the bellhousing with webbing
detach the throttle cable from the kickdown assembly
detach the shifter cable from the transmission via the e-clip
detach controls from other bolts on forward end of transaxle, hang out of the way
unbolt the four forward transmission mount bolts
unbolt the ground cable at the forward mount
unbolt the ATF dipstick tube
disconnect the starting battery
disconnect the wiring loom from the starter
unbolt and remove starter (first of four engine+transaxle bolts now removed)
make winch taut and make ready for tension
remove driver side upper engine+transaxle bolt
remove remaining two lower engine+transaxle bolts
stop, make sure nothing is caught on top or sides of transaxle
remove ATF cooler
lower transaxle carefully onto cardboard or plywood

I hope that helps.

kourt

[mcgoverner]

Kourt - You're my new favorite person - Thanks so much for posting that, can't tell you how much that helps...

I'm in the bush starting tomorrow here in the Yukon for the next month, so I'll report back on the flipside and let you know how that goes - may have some more questions but that feels totally do-able now - I'm excited to tear into it when I get back...

THANK YOU!

[mcgoverner]

After many months, I figured it was time to post some photos of this operation and share some learnings from a complete rookie... I apologize for the poor photo quality, and for the random(ish) order; experts feel free to chime in and point out all of my mistakes...

I basically followed Kourts steps in the previous post, super helpful... I think for someone who has done this before and is familiar with the in-between steps in his description, this could be done in a day, like he said... Being a dumby, it took me quite a bit longer...

Here's the set up, at the NOLS base in Whitehorse, YT: It was pretty nice to have a concrete surface to work on...

Went to Walmart, bought a 3 ton jack, 2 jack stands, and a boat winch - I kept them all clean, kept the boxes, and returned everything 4 days later... moral? maybe... thrifty? yes... the whole operation cost me about $50: TC Seal ($12?), Puller, Fluids, and a few trips to town...

One thing to add to Kourt's list would be to support the engine! - I didn't know that and luckily a friend told me to do so... I know, it's a no brainer, but I just didn't know... I used a bottle jack and plywood to support it gently...

Starter and AT dipstick - Beware of the copper post! I stripped the last few threads on this puppy removing the nut, clean it first... had a bear of a time getting everything back on there, almost didn't make it...

another shot of underneath set up

Kourt's set-up, only I used 2x6 on edge as it seemed I needed the extra space to get the right tension on the webbing...

Webbing through the bell housing

Took me a while to figure out how to get the oil cooler removed; I ended up using vice-grips, some pipe, and then discovered that a 3/8 socket drive made the perfect plug... this was a pain to get to, and I had to drop the front end of the tranny just right to get at both the hoses...

One more shot before the TC came off... Sorry I don't have more shots of the actual removal, but they're out there...

Here's a look at the whole set-up from underneath and this is where I left it to replace the TC - The actual replacement went smooth with a puller, and I used a 2" PVC female to female connector to pound it in, worked great...

this was the only way for my ADD not to totally screw things up...

Other things to note:
-When removing the 3 TC bolts, use a magnet on the socket extension so as not to drop them. Go easy and start them by hand on the way back in (it would suck to strip one at that stage!)
-Having long/multiple socket extensions for removing the starter is handy; it seems like you need just the right combination of lengths to get at it...
-Having done it now, I think I could do this in a day... I did the whole thing unassisted and now have all the right tools to do the job.

disclaimer: this was months and months ago and the paint fumes and glue I use on a regular basis may have eroded critical parts of my memory... my hope is that this may serve someone else in the future... and a big thanks to the samba; I'd have been totally F@#%ed if it weren't for this forum...

[kourt]

Glad this worked out for you. Yes, I forgot to list that supporting the engine is necessary. In fact, when you reinstall the transaxle, being able to move the engine around with a bottle jack is really helpful.

kourt

[Brownj]

Kourt, Is there any reason I couldn't use a similar setup to remove engine / AT trans at the same time? And then install Zetec? I was thinking I needed a cherry picker - but this seems like a much better, simpler solution.

[kourt]

It could probably be done. You want to make sure your webbing is very stout, and that the wooden frame supporting the boat winch is doubled up. In other words, sister two boards together on either side of the winch.

kourt

[blee]

I know this is an older post, but about to do the same thing. In the photos, why is there a jack under the trans if the wench is doing the same thing from the top? insurance? Could I accomplish the same thing just using a jack and no wench? likely harder to get it out from under the van that way.

[ALIKA T3]

[jlrftype7]

Just did this today... how timely - granted, at work with both a lift and a Lincoln Trans jack, but I’m posting pictures anyway..

_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto

[jlrftype7]

This is how I supported the Engine from above while working the transaxle underneath.

_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto

[jlrftype7]

Simple, rough reference of when your Torque Converter is fully installed/seated - Use a bar across the face of the transaxle to check the depth of the TC.
It’s only a few millimeters shy of the transaxle face/edge, .
The torque Converter bolts are flanged hex head , 8mm x10mm long. 10.9 or better grade .
I bought a bag full from McMaster Carr, Van Cafe was out of stock when I was ordering my Torque Converter Seals and Rear Main Seals.

_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto

[jlrftype7]

Rebuilt Transaxle going back in- that wet look on the Cast Iron Final Drive is AC50 , a anti corrosion spray. I put this on the engine as well where the cast iron touches the aluminum to lessen galvanic corrosion between the two, without resorting to an inert sealant that might distort the mounting of the two assemblies if it was thick enough.

_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto

[mcgoverner]

The Jack is to support the back end of of the transaxle which is mounted to the frame while the winch allows a nice controlled lowering of the from end (or back end I guess, ha)- replacing those hex bolts is a great idea, I did not and am afraid for my sanity the next time I have to back them out... good luck!