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Frank Bassman Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2012 Posts: 892 Location: Miami
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:30 am Post subject: Failing Bosch Points |
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We all know about the wonderful quality of Bosch for the ACVW points these days. But I figured I'd share with you guys something that has happened THREE times with different Bosch points, in case it happens to you!
They come undone at the "pinned" end, and flop vertically, causing misses backfires and no acceleration. Usually idle fine except when REALLY bad.
I could save the points by taking a chisel and hitting it (the pin) with a hammer on a vise, in an "X" pattern. This expanded the material at the top and the points no longer flop.
For the record, these points were about 6,000 miles old and never saw any current as I use them to trigger an ignition system. All the failures I have had with them have been purely mechanical.
I will look to see if the advance plate is excessively "floaty" which could account for this. I've looked before though, with no obvious sign of excessive flop.
I will buy a set of napa points, and see if there is substantial improvement in build quality.
-Frank |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17273 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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Pertronix _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15279 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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Throw your points in the trash and get Pertronix. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26740 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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Dave, I know what you mean, but, you don't realize that actually that would work worse, if all was right.
I was just talking about that with a guy. If it works or doesn't, all in the build quality.
How can a generator outlive an alternator 3 to one? because the generator was built WELL and the alternators are built shitty, that's how.
In the time he's gone through three sets, I've has the same set of points, and they were used. They might go round the equator or have already. I did have to add a dab of grease |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9131 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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Never been so happy since I sold all my points and condensors and went electronic
brad |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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Bosch makes a lot of different sets of points?
What's the part number?
Pertronix... sure, just carry a AAA card. And hope the magnets are exactly 90* apart... many are not. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3987 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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I could never "trust" a Petronix module. I know too many people who installed them correctly and they failed, leaving them on the side of the road. I don't want to carry a spare distributor or points either.
I agree with the OP that a lot of the Bosch parts are crap these days. The new condensers for 71 and up distributors are not even marked Bosch or anything else anymore.
Bosch a few years back was installing white plastic points wear blocks that would snap off on a regular basis. They seemed to have corrected that though.
I've hoarded many NOS points and condensers for my personal VW's that were made in the 60's and 70's. 35 years of VW ownership and I've never been left stranded due to points or condensers. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Frank Bassman Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2012 Posts: 892 Location: Miami
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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Hey guys, I see this caused quite a stir. A good thing.
Just for the record, I put about 200 miles a week on my car, and have always run points. about 50 or 60k miles ago I installed a Ford ignition module, using the points as a trigger only. Have been VERY happy with it. So I DO have an electronic ignition, which to ME has proven itself against the Pertronix. (That's my personal observation)
The only failures I have had have been that pin, on three sets, three times. It's comical because the contacts look new!
I don't have part numbers on hand, but I will snap a picture of the one on the car.
One set was bought over the counter about a year or two ago. It had a very shiny silver finish on it, with black plastic "bushing" around the pin. The contacts were nowhere near flat with each other and I had to tweak that back then. I tried chiseling to squash the top to stop the slip, with no luck as the pin barely protruded through the plastic.
The other set is from the early 90's I believe and was of MUCH better construction. Beefier frame, silver brushed finish spring, (as opposed to black) and really solid looking pin area. Failed too, in the same way!
The third set was similar to the first.
Tomorrow I will pick up a set of points from advance, which I may not even need after the fix, but I'll keep them in the glove compartment!
-Frank |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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possiably bosch is trying to tell you somethen.....go electronic. hell there was a ford model t at cars&coffie with a electronic 009 in it. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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mark tucker wrote: |
hell there was a ford model t at cars&coffie with a electronic 009 in it. |
A cheap option when you can't afford the original distributor. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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no he has the oe dist. the 09 is eazy to find and cheep if somethen go's rong. the rest of the car appears to be oe/restored. he dosent have to addvance/retard the timing by hand now as he drives and starts the car. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26740 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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Ok sure, I give up. I was putting a bosche hall sensor on an 009, but I lost interest in the idea, because it's a PITA the way they mount it, and it's too expensive. So I will not be doing it again. Should be done radially if anything. You know hall sensors are so cheap now they are used instead of switches, to save money, why would I pay 50$ for one?
Get a Compufire or computronix.
Petronix.....can burn, get what you give. It's not a classic. 009....as much hate as it gets here, is a classic. It's well built, simple, cheap (or was, rather, when they made them for real cars)
the compufire/tfi might be what I'm running when the car is 100 years old, or it might not, I think many of you will be dead by then, maybe myself included, but probably not |
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David_nc_72std Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2015 Posts: 841 Location: Winston-Salem, NC
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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Frank Bassman wrote: |
The only failures I have had have been that pin, on three sets, three times. It's comical because the contacts look new!
I don't have part numbers on hand, but I will snap a picture of the one on the car.
One set was bought over the counter about a year or two ago. It had a very shiny silver finish on it, with black plastic "bushing" around the pin. The contacts were nowhere near flat with each other and I had to tweak that back then. I tried chiseling to squash the top to stop the slip, with no luck as the pin barely protruded through the plastic.
The other set is from the early 90's I believe and was of MUCH better construction. Beefier frame, silver brushed finish spring, (as opposed to black) and really solid looking pin area. Failed too, in the same way!
The third set was similar to the first.
Tomorrow I will pick up a set of points from advance, which I may not even need after the fix, but I'll keep them in the glove compartment!
-Frank |
When you have the same failure on three different parts, at least two of which are from different sources, I'd suspect that something else is wrong that is causing that particular failure. |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9131 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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I find it so funny that VW guys have so many problems with Pertronix ignitions. Pertronix must make 2 runs of modules ones for VWs that fail constantly and one the rest of the world that runs perfectly and never break down like the 30 or so I've put in other brands of vehicles over the years.
Has anyone ever put an osciliscope on a VW regulator and watched the power spikes that occur when the points open and close? I know electronics hate spikes. I've replaced a fair amount of electronics over the years do to hinkey charging systems.
brad |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26740 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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I would NOT expect a device, whose purpose is to create voltage spikes to be suceptable to voltage spikes. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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They make the electronics modules so you don't have to futz with ricity old points that you can not find quality replacement ones any more ... And I have yet to understand the problems with them becasue my 2084 has been running with same module since 2002 and the 2180 I built as a race car had electronic module in it for its whole life from day it was built to day I sold it... What was approximate 7 years...
I don't even have a spare set of point in my random parts collection... Have good Mallory dual points distributor though IF I really needed to use points...
Only thing I can understand is modules failing if they are connected backwards..
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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Dale,
It seems the newer ones are the ones that have a higher failure rate. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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... and here we have a set of pointless points I recently unboxed.
Made yah smile or cry, Happy Holidays! _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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perello Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2005 Posts: 829 Location: where social security comes for free
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points |
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Had similar experiences with bosch points..quality drop
Switched to beru, not perfect but at least perform better _________________ Aug '58 pressed bumper SO23
1974 German Thing
1978 Bug 1200 |
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