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Failing Bosch Points
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Frank Bassman
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

We all know about the wonderful quality of Bosch for the ACVW points these days. But I figured I'd share with you guys something that has happened THREE times with different Bosch points, in case it happens to you!

They come undone at the "pinned" end, and flop vertically, causing misses backfires and no acceleration. Usually idle fine except when REALLY bad.

I could save the points by taking a chisel and hitting it (the pin) with a hammer on a vise, in an "X" pattern. This expanded the material at the top and the points no longer flop.

For the record, these points were about 6,000 miles old and never saw any current as I use them to trigger an ignition system. All the failures I have had with them have been purely mechanical.

I will look to see if the advance plate is excessively "floaty" which could account for this. I've looked before though, with no obvious sign of excessive flop.

I will buy a set of napa points, and see if there is substantial improvement in build quality.

-Frank
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

Pertronix
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

Throw your points in the trash and get Pertronix.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

Dave, I know what you mean, but, you don't realize that actually that would work worse, if all was right.

I was just talking about that with a guy. If it works or doesn't, all in the build quality.

How can a generator outlive an alternator 3 to one? because the generator was built WELL and the alternators are built shitty, that's how.
In the time he's gone through three sets, I've has the same set of points, and they were used. They might go round the equator or have already. I did have to add a dab of grease Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

Never been so happy since I sold all my points and condensors and went electronic

brad
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

Bosch makes a lot of different sets of points?

What's the part number?

Pertronix... sure, just carry a AAA card. And hope the magnets are exactly 90* apart... many are not.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

The Eichlin/SMP points from NAPA are excellent quality.


If you go electronic, keep a spare set of points or a AAA card on you. I've been late to work from failed modules too many times to risk running them on a 150 mile daily driven car any more.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

I could never "trust" a Petronix module. I know too many people who installed them correctly and they failed, leaving them on the side of the road. I don't want to carry a spare distributor or points either.

I agree with the OP that a lot of the Bosch parts are crap these days. The new condensers for 71 and up distributors are not even marked Bosch or anything else anymore.

Bosch a few years back was installing white plastic points wear blocks that would snap off on a regular basis. They seemed to have corrected that though.

I've hoarded many NOS points and condensers for my personal VW's that were made in the 60's and 70's. 35 years of VW ownership and I've never been left stranded due to points or condensers.
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Frank Bassman
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

Hey guys, I see this caused quite a stir. A good thing. Very Happy

Just for the record, I put about 200 miles a week on my car, and have always run points. about 50 or 60k miles ago I installed a Ford ignition module, using the points as a trigger only. Have been VERY happy with it. So I DO have an electronic ignition, which to ME has proven itself against the Pertronix. (That's my personal observation)

The only failures I have had have been that pin, on three sets, three times. It's comical because the contacts look new!

I don't have part numbers on hand, but I will snap a picture of the one on the car.

One set was bought over the counter about a year or two ago. It had a very shiny silver finish on it, with black plastic "bushing" around the pin. The contacts were nowhere near flat with each other and I had to tweak that back then. I tried chiseling to squash the top to stop the slip, with no luck as the pin barely protruded through the plastic.

The other set is from the early 90's I believe and was of MUCH better construction. Beefier frame, silver brushed finish spring, (as opposed to black) and really solid looking pin area. Failed too, in the same way!

The third set was similar to the first.

Tomorrow I will pick up a set of points from advance, which I may not even need after the fix, but I'll keep them in the glove compartment!

-Frank
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

possiably bosch is trying to tell you somethen.....go electronic. hell there was a ford model t at cars&coffie with a electronic 009 in it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

mark tucker wrote:
hell there was a ford model t at cars&coffie with a electronic 009 in it.

A cheap option when you can't afford the original distributor.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

no he has the oe dist. the 09 is eazy to find and cheep if somethen go's rong. the rest of the car appears to be oe/restored. he dosent have to addvance/retard the timing by hand now as he drives and starts the car.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

Ok sure, I give up. I was putting a bosche hall sensor on an 009, but I lost interest in the idea, because it's a PITA the way they mount it, and it's too expensive. So I will not be doing it again. Should be done radially if anything. You know hall sensors are so cheap now they are used instead of switches, to save money, why would I pay 50$ for one?

Get a Compufire or computronix.
Petronix.....can burn, get what you give. It's not a classic. 009....as much hate as it gets here, is a classic. It's well built, simple, cheap (or was, rather, when they made them for real cars)

the compufire/tfi might be what I'm running when the car is 100 years old, or it might not, I think many of you will be dead by then, maybe myself included, but probably not Razz
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

Frank Bassman wrote:

The only failures I have had have been that pin, on three sets, three times. It's comical because the contacts look new!

I don't have part numbers on hand, but I will snap a picture of the one on the car.

One set was bought over the counter about a year or two ago. It had a very shiny silver finish on it, with black plastic "bushing" around the pin. The contacts were nowhere near flat with each other and I had to tweak that back then. I tried chiseling to squash the top to stop the slip, with no luck as the pin barely protruded through the plastic.

The other set is from the early 90's I believe and was of MUCH better construction. Beefier frame, silver brushed finish spring, (as opposed to black) and really solid looking pin area. Failed too, in the same way!

The third set was similar to the first.

Tomorrow I will pick up a set of points from advance, which I may not even need after the fix, but I'll keep them in the glove compartment!

-Frank


When you have the same failure on three different parts, at least two of which are from different sources, I'd suspect that something else is wrong that is causing that particular failure.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

I find it so funny that VW guys have so many problems with Pertronix ignitions. Pertronix must make 2 runs of modules ones for VWs that fail constantly and one the rest of the world that runs perfectly and never break down like the 30 or so I've put in other brands of vehicles over the years.

Has anyone ever put an osciliscope on a VW regulator and watched the power spikes that occur when the points open and close? I know electronics hate spikes. I've replaced a fair amount of electronics over the years do to hinkey charging systems.

brad
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

I would NOT expect a device, whose purpose is to create voltage spikes to be suceptable to voltage spikes.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

They make the electronics modules so you don't have to futz with ricity old points that you can not find quality replacement ones any more ... And I have yet to understand the problems with them becasue my 2084 has been running with same module since 2002 and the 2180 I built as a race car had electronic module in it for its whole life from day it was built to day I sold it... What was approximate 7 years...

I don't even have a spare set of point in my random parts collection... Have good Mallory dual points distributor though IF I really needed to use points...

Only thing I can understand is modules failing if they are connected backwards..

Dale
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

Dale,

It seems the newer ones are the ones that have a higher failure rate.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

... and here we have a set of pointless points I recently unboxed.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Failing Bosch Points Reply with quote

Had similar experiences with bosch points..quality drop

Switched to beru, not perfect but at least perform better
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