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challomoner Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2010 Posts: 1195 Location: IRELAND
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:50 am Post subject: Scat pro Street rockers |
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I've been trying to get my Scat 1.4 s lined up on the shafts. I keep hearing conflicting ideas on whether the rocker should centre valve or just off centre.
Here's what I have now
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UK Luke 72 Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011 Posts: 2867 Location: Little Britain
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challomoner Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2010 Posts: 1195 Location: IRELAND
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:04 am Post subject: Re: Scat pro Street rockers |
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UK Luke 72 wrote: |
Id be more worried about the angle on that rocker tip... Looks to have a very small contact patch...
Blue it up and take a swipe... See what it looks like. |
I keep getting different angles,I originally had that small contact patch. Switched blocks around and then got a better full contact. Measured the blocks and they are identical. I'll see what that angle is like with the pushrod and actual valves I'll be using.
This wipe I was happy with, maybe a touch low?
This was my first wipe where I thought the rocker tips were off flat
Last edited by challomoner on Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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UK Luke 72 Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011 Posts: 2867 Location: Little Britain
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challomoner Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2010 Posts: 1195 Location: IRELAND
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:21 am Post subject: Re: Scat pro Street rockers |
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UK Luke 72 wrote: |
I guess off a little is ok but I'd like to see as much contact there as possible... Danny at Reichspeed can reface them for you to square them up |
Cheers luke, now I know who to call if I need |
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UK Luke 72 Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011 Posts: 2867 Location: Little Britain
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challomoner Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2010 Posts: 1195 Location: IRELAND
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Scat pro Street rockers |
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UK Luke 72 wrote: |
Danny is your man, great guy, awesome car and a great shop. Good prices and fantastic turnaround... He'll happily put you straight and call a spade a spade too
As for the rockers I'm probably as in the know as you so I'll let the big boys tell us how it should be 👍 |
Hopefully I won't need him but if I do thanks for the info.
Back to the centring question, or questions
I've searched and searched on this forum but can't find the answer, all I'm finding is info for swivel feet adjusters. Are my rockers OK on the pic above or are they too centred?
While I'm here I was wondering about shims, is there any benefit to be had from running stacks of 2 or 3 shims over running a single .020 on the thrust side?
If I'm getting blocks trimmed to allow a shim fit should I trim enough for a single shim or 3? |
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vwkirb Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 812 Location: Athens, GA
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Scat pro Street rockers |
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How much to have them trimmed... Humm idk. I had a similar problem setting up my geometry I was able to get what I needed by using thinner shims.
Really you can get just about any thickness of shim you want from a place like McMaster Carr.
So that may take some anxiety out of your decision. _________________ Andrew Kirby |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Scat pro Street rockers |
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most of those type rockers need to be low, no shims, infact many need to be lower than that,I usualy cut the rockerblocks about 1mm to get the best patern and sweep&geo. as for shims I like atleast 2 shims on the thrust side 3 if possiable. I narrow the blocks to accomadate 3 shims on my stuff. if you have to use a thin shim put it between 2 thicker shims, and all shims shoul be hardened spring steel, not steel that has been colored blue...and isant hardened,it needs to be hardened. if it bends it isant hard. ( the non thrust side may use non hard shims as they do not carry a load....but dont get them mixed up.) somebody hear was selling hardened shims in .007&.004" for the 787 size shafts..767??....THEY WERE NOT HARDENED. SO..I used them on the non thrust side. but they did look like they were hardened nice and shiney...but soft..
as for alinging to the tip...not real nessary,I get them as close as possiable to centered but the main thing is pushrod to pushrod tube clearance.you may need to move a rocker over some for clearance there.. Im trying to set the rocker side play up at about .004" on intakes and.007 on ex.with the thinking that as the head expands the intakes will get looser. someday Ill check hot & cold side play. |
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jason Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002 Posts: 3443 Location: Garage
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Scat pro Street rockers |
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In your first picture the actual shaft looks crooked causing your weird swipe. Make sure the studs aren't holding it off the block. |
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challomoner Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2010 Posts: 1195 Location: IRELAND
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:15 am Post subject: Re: Scat pro Street rockers |
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mark tucker wrote: |
most of those type rockers need to be low, no shims, infact many need to be lower than that,I usualy cut the rockerblocks about 1mm to get the best patern and sweep&geo. as for shims I like atleast 2 shims on the thrust side 3 if possiable. I narrow the blocks to accomadate 3 shims on my stuff. if you have to use a thin shim put it between 2 thicker shims, and all shims shoul be hardened spring steel, not steel that has been colored blue...and isant hardened,it needs to be hardened. if it bends it isant hard. ( the non thrust side may use non hard shims as they do not carry a load....but dont get them mixed up.) somebody hear was selling hardened shims in .007&.004" for the 787 size shafts..767??....THEY WERE NOT HARDENED. SO..I used them on the non thrust side. but they did look like they were hardened nice and shiney...but soft..
as for alinging to the tip...not real nessary,I get them as close as possiable to centered but the main thing is pushrod to pushrod tube clearance.you may need to move a rocker over some for clearance there.. Im trying to set the rocker side play up at about .004" on intakes and.007 on ex.with the thinking that as the head expands the intakes will get looser. someday Ill check hot & cold side play. |
Mark your advice always seems to make sense, I'm gonna run minimum 2 shims on thrust sides. It'll mean trimming blocks and centre spacer a little but that's easy done and to my mind a worthwhile modification.
Thanks also for clarifying the centring questions I had, I'm getting ahead of myself trying to get these centred without the longblock built up. Hope to have my barrels back from machine shop in time for some mock up work at the weekend.
BTW are the shims with Scat rockers any good? |
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challomoner Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2010 Posts: 1195 Location: IRELAND
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Scat pro Street rockers |
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jason wrote: |
In your first picture the actual shaft looks crooked causing your weird swipe. Make sure the studs aren't holding it off the block. |
You may be right about that I'll double check the studs are screwed in deep enough. Thanks. |
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challomoner Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2010 Posts: 1195 Location: IRELAND
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Scat pro Street rockers |
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I just tried bending the Scat shims , anyone got a source for hardened shims to fit Scat shafts? |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Scat pro Street rockers |
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Ive taken HP spring shims and cut them on my lathe to fit. the "HP " shims are hard....well if there the real ones. ( valve spring shims,not serated, perfectly flatt&smooth & hard. they also come in soft crap collored blue to be passed off as hardend. ) let me clarify somethen, the hard shims will infact bend, but they are extreamly stiff and spring back to flat. the shit shims stay bent. also hard shims are usualy shiney.....but always check to be sure. dull shims are usualy soft. I dont remember the VSI number for the shims I cut down. it's eazer to cut the inner dia open then the od down. I think the shafts are about 20mm. so if you have a head shop neer you may check with them. |
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UK Luke 72 Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011 Posts: 2867 Location: Little Britain
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challomoner Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2010 Posts: 1195 Location: IRELAND
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Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Scat pro Street rockers |
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mark tucker wrote: |
Ive taken HP spring shims and cut them on my lathe to fit. the "HP " shims are hard....well if there the real ones. ( valve spring shims,not serated, perfectly flatt&smooth & hard. they also come in soft crap collored blue to be passed off as hardend. ) let me clarify somethen, the hard shims will infact bend, but they are extreamly stiff and spring back to flat. the shit shims stay bent. also hard shims are usualy shiney.....but always check to be sure. dull shims are usualy soft. I dont remember the VSI number for the shims I cut down. it's eazer to cut the inner dia open then the od down. I think the shafts are about 20mm. so if you have a head shop neer you may check with them. |
Thanks again Mark! The shims with the Scat rockers are soft, they're easily bent and stay bent. They were black in colour before I sanded them flat, lost a third of their width on some to get flat
I'm gonna talk to a couple of local guys about how to get some shims either made or bought , the Scat shims will go on non thrust side so I haven't wasted a day getting them flat |
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challomoner Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2010 Posts: 1195 Location: IRELAND
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Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Scat pro Street rockers |
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UK Luke 72 wrote: |
Jo Clifford/ Richie Webb at RJ Volksperformance sorted mine out, I haven't done the McTucky test on them but they won't sell shit... |
Yep Jo and Rich have been a wealth of knowledge and help to me already, I'll be hitting them up for good shims tomorrow. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Scat pro Street rockers |
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many shops sell/use soft shims and dont know it. they look hard!!! well shims arnt dicks so you cant tell by looks.Ive had shops try to pass them off as hard when they were not. and venders too. I used to order the HP shims to be sure, and sometimes they send the soft ones because they were 1/4 of the cost of the hard ones.you cant fix stupid. |
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bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Scat pro Street rockers |
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P/M'd you. |
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