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richierich Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2004 Posts: 887
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Any ideas whats causing this diff noise? |
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modok wrote: |
Yes. i have seen the late IRS diff handle a LOT, with the coarser tooth gears, so it makes sense it's possible.
You could also cryo and then temper the gears, which does not help a TON, but it doesn't cost much either.
I do not know if there is differences in the strength of the diff housings, but that also could be a concern. Need to hold the gears in proper alignment, thus the dual clips, and so forth. Seen diff housings break...... but not sure if that was before or after the gears exploded. Food for thought. |
So is the general concensus nowadays that Superdiffs are a total no no? Begs the question why are builders still fitting / selling them.
I think I really might consider getting a Quaife put in it. Is the Quaife a simple swap in for the SD or will the trans need to go to a trans specialist for it to be put in?
Ah, I see now that the diff bearing preload and ring gear backlash has to be set and I wouldn't know about that so I guess it'll going to a specialist then |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15278 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Any ideas whats causing this diff noise? |
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Nothing is bullet proof and anything can be broken. There is a possibility your trans was build correctly from the start but you just plain broke it. Performance has a price. We are taking 40-50 year old parts designed for a 50 HP engine and expecting them to hold up for a 180 HP engine. If you broke the end gear or spider gear than it was not a super diff failure.
A new swingaxle super diff does not have the oiling holes drilled. They DO NOT know if you will be installing it in a Bug or a Bus with reduction gears or a mid engines rail Buggy. The oiling holes need to be drilled on the correct side of the paddles depending on which direction it will turn. There are transaxle builders that do not know this and just install the super diff without drilling any holes.
You are making guesses as what is actually broken. Take the transaxle back to Kevin and give him a chance to diagnose and fix the problem.
My suggestion is talk to several different engine builders and see what clutch and pressure plate to use. I'm running a stage 1 on my 175 HP Ghia drag raced with slicks and have no problems.
A Quaife is torque bias differential (also called a limited slip) and are $1600 now. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26740 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Any ideas whats causing this diff noise? |
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Dave, the only way the diff turns backwards is if you use a reverse rotation engine, like a Corvair. I am sure you will figure that out, because you are pretty sharp, just a question of how many years it will take
It's noisy because the gears are a ways out of alignment or backlash, it's not broken, just not the level of quality he wants. I am sure plenty of guys would say just run it, and they might not be wrong. Smooth diff gears aren't going to win any more races than noisy ones. |
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Casting Timmy Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2012 Posts: 1221 Location: Kansas City, Kansas
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Any ideas whats causing this diff noise? |
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Since the British pound is down right now, I've seen a couple posts on Facebook of people getting Quaife for $900 to their door. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26740 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: Any ideas whats causing this diff noise? |
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awesome! |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15278 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Any ideas whats causing this diff noise? |
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Here is the thread on modifying the super diff for better oiling https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...ay+vallero _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4848 Location: sanger ca
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Any ideas whats causing this diff noise? |
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vwracerdave wrote: |
Nothing is bullet proof and anything can be broken. There is a possibility your trans was build correctly from the start but you just plain broke it. Performance has a price. We are taking 40-50 year old parts designed for a 50 HP engine and expecting them to hold up for a 180 HP engine. If you broke the end gear or spider gear than it was not a super diff failure.
A new swingaxle super diff does not have the oiling holes drilled. They DO NOT know if you will be installing it in a Bug or a Bus with reduction gears or a mid engines rail Buggy. The oiling holes need to be drilled on the correct side of the paddles depending on which direction it will turn. There are transaxle builders that do not know this and just install the super diff without drilling any holes.
You are making guesses as what is actually broken. Take the transaxle back to Kevin and give him a chance to diagnose and fix the problem.
My suggestion is talk to several different engine builders and see what clutch and pressure plate to use. I'm running a stage 1 on my 175 HP Ghia drag raced with slicks and have no problems.
A Quaife is torque bias differential (also called a limited slip) and are $1600 now. |
Rolling foward is rolling foward, bus,bug, ghia exetera, exeption is a reverse rotation engine i.e. 4 cyl honda ect, but then you have way more problems than a sd any way _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Any ideas whats causing this diff noise? |
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This is not correct. Rotation of the diff is the same no matter what side the ring gear is on .. unless you're installing a reverse rotation engine.
Quote: |
A new swingaxle super diff does not have the oiling holes drilled. They DO NOT know if you will be installing it in a Bug or a Bus with reduction gears or a mid engines rail Buggy. The oiling holes need to be drilled on the correct side of the paddles depending on which direction it will turn. |
_________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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overdrive Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2016 Posts: 75 Location: Not Sure
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: Any ideas whats causing this diff noise? |
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You two do they have meetings right |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26740 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: Any ideas whats causing this diff noise? |
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richierich wrote: |
So is the general concensus nowadays that Superdiffs are a total no no? Begs the question why are builders still fitting / selling them.
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No. I'm NOT expressing general opinion. I'm being honest. |
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Slow 1200 Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2004 Posts: 2103
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:05 am Post subject: Re: Any ideas whats causing this diff noise? |
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gears wrote: |
This is not correct. Rotation of the diff is the same no matter what side the ring gear is on .. unless you're installing a reverse rotation engine.
Quote: |
A new swingaxle super diff does not have the oiling holes drilled. They DO NOT know if you will be installing it in a Bug or a Bus with reduction gears or a mid engines rail Buggy. The oiling holes need to be drilled on the correct side of the paddles depending on which direction it will turn. |
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....or run the transmission upside down |
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raul arrese Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2006 Posts: 1329 Location: miami florida
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:27 am Post subject: Re: Any ideas whats causing this diff noise? |
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I had a long talk with the guy who built my transmission , " Precision Engineered Performance " about this exact subject when he built mine , He said he has not seen this problem at all , But he only uses Erco super diffs , He builds allot of transaxles for allot of racers .. or maybe he mods them and doesn't say ?? my tranny has been working great .. a lot better then when I built it .. _________________ " Hot vw feature , may 2014 issue "
" 2013 Bug Jam class winner "
" Bug Jam best motor and best paint "
" 2013 Lakeland Classic Best of Show "
" 2014 Show and Shine , First in class "
"
Like my facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Raul-Arrese-custom-fabrication-and-performance/1832968110262608 |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Any ideas whats causing this diff noise? |
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There's nothing special about ERCO's SDs. Unless you open them up for oiling (more than just a couple oiling holes), the internals WILL exhibit far more wear than they would in a stock diff. How long you get away with it will vary (a function of straight line driving vs. twisties).
That level of noise is FAR from normal. Could be a broken gear, could be a 15/10 diff + 17/11 gears led to excessive wear. Whatever it is, I wouldn't run it. _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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kcr Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2004 Posts: 19 Location: riverside .ca
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:53 am Post subject: Re: Any ideas whats causing this diff noise? |
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That does not sound good. When you lift a swing axle car and rotate the wheels, it will not be smooth as your letting the suspension go to a point that it normally doesn't see.
Did I install the axles?
I would love to help you get your car correct. _________________ Check out our website at kcrtransmissions.com |
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richierich Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2004 Posts: 887
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:30 am Post subject: Re: Any ideas whats causing this diff noise? |
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Hi Kev - no you didn't install the axles, I did. When I removed everything a few days ago two of the fulcrum plates on the passenger side had some damage to the edges and the drivers side gear was very tight in the diff - so tight I could not remove it - so something was obviously binding. What I don't understand is that I installed everything exactly the same as the two times previously when it was fine. Hey ho. |
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Wheelie Pete Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2005 Posts: 517 Location: Detroit Rock City
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Any ideas whats causing this diff noise? |
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Super Diff holes aren't hard to drill - I drilled a set on the way to Alaska -after I experienced a similar problem to yours. You can check out the pics here on page 9 then I drilled them bigger on page 14.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=160
It wasn't hard to do with just a drill and carbide bit. |
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