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anthracitedub Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007 Posts: 3241 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:55 am Post subject: Connecting rods have been modified |
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While disassembling a 1200 for a r build I noticed two of the connecting rods had this modification.
While these rods won't be reused because of this hack, I was curious to see if anyone has an idea why someone would do this.
I'm taking a guess by thinking it has something to do with oiling... perhaps they thought this could help in some way?
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Howard 111 Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2005 Posts: 1827 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Connecting rods have been modified |
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I've never seen that one, but assume it's to allow more oil to get to the rod bearings. _________________ 1973 Karmann Ghia
Turbocharged, Fuel Injected
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531270 |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21519 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Connecting rods have been modified |
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Yes...its a legitimate modification....but thats not saying its done well or right.
Its designed to allow oil spray from the crank galleys....usually to cool the bottom of the piston head and wrist pin area. Kind of a poor mans piston squirter.
But I cannot be the judge of it totally because its not "just" a Volkswagen modification. Its been used by many engine builders in many cars over the years and where the oiling grooves go on different cranks will partly be in relation to where the oil ports/troughs are on that particular crank and where you desire to have the oil spray directed.
There was a VW factory service bulletin about where and how to make the notches on 2.0L type 4 engines. I will see if I can find it and link to it. Ray
Some more info here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=319027
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=171098&highlight=rod+oiling+notch
On the STF:
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=95506&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
I can't for the life of me find the technicalservice bulletin right now...but its somewhere on this site.
Ray
Last edited by raygreenwood on Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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anthracitedub Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007 Posts: 3241 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Connecting rods have been modified |
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Cool, kinda thought so. It also had the larger type 3 oil pump installed.
The rest of the engine actually looks pretty good... standard crank and case, very little case wear, nice square boss heads.
Just gonna replace the rods and bearings, new rings go through the heads and call it done ( with all the proper clearances attained). |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Connecting rods have been modified |
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Usually I've seen that done but with a single groove pointing towards the piston. Seems like the bottom two grooves wouldn't be effective, but maybe..
I wouldn't call it a hack necessarily, but maybe not done in the most effective manner. Did you happen to weigh them to see if they were balanced to the others without the mod? |
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anthracitedub Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007 Posts: 3241 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Connecting rods have been modified |
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Thanks for the links, it looks like whoever did these rods got a little happy with the grinder. I thought a little about cleaning up the work and rebalancing them, but I do have another set of untouched rods.
Sad thing is, the rods have really nice wrist pin bushings in them, the pins fit good and would not need replacing. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Connecting rods have been modified |
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when you just do 2 rods do the center rods and top and botom so they oil both sides of the piston 's...but I wouldent recomend it and doubt it does squat.especialy like that. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21519 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Connecting rods have been modified |
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mark tucker wrote: |
when you just do 2 rods do the center rods and top and botom so they oil both sides of the piston 's...but I wouldent recomend it and doubt it does squat.especialy like that. |
Yes.....I am,still not sold on the effectiveness of this modification......until someone pits a camera in a crankcase to show the spray aim and a real scientific test to show that it gets enough oil flow to cool the pistons without losing to much pressure at the journal.
Others have also noted that due to TDC and BDC squish it may only spray at certain intervals. And....dealing,with industrial spray nozzles a lot.....it occours to me that a simple V-notch is not a good orifice shape to make a reliable pattern or create optimum aim.
If you need piston sprayers.....a good thing where needed.....I say install real ones. Ray |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26788 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Connecting rods have been modified |
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I think it's fine. It's not going to hamper the operation.
Those 40 horse rods, very hard to get the caps aligned right, checking and re-conditioning thus a PITA.
If they ARE good, USE EM! Less work, more play |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Connecting rods have been modified |
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Shape and position are important for cooling piston bottoms, and those mods fail at both. _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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FeelthySanchez Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2011 Posts: 1349 Location: Now is that a real poncho, or a Sears poncho?
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Connecting rods have been modified |
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Some old-school features, native to small engines from the era of splash-lubed bottom ends:
_________________
modok wrote: |
I would like if you had enough clue to communicate what you are doing. |
Ryan Tucker wrote: |
Enough clue..Whats that mean? |
OldIronSpine wrote: |
I'm not sure how compression works.
Turbos don't produce torque, they produce HP. Instead of torque.
The real problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26788 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Connecting rods have been modified |
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this is the most common notch arrangement, 90s and newer, honda, subaru, sozuki, nissan. I think they copied honda, but I don't know for sure, Honda researched it to death first.
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ralf Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2008 Posts: 1215 Location: r4
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: Connecting rods have been modified |
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modok wrote: |
this is the most common notch arrangement, 90s and newer, honda, subaru, sozuki, nissan. I think they copied honda, but I don't know for sure, Honda researched it to death first.
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true 99.99% of the hondas i rebuilt and built/modded
have oe rods like this... actually the 0.01% that isnt like this
has a pin hole on the shoulder of the rods bfor the beam = with a bearing hole acting as a oiljet to spray to the piston and bore _________________ Flow Through a Curved Conduit
porting my SP head for my brother's project
https://youtu.be/OS_mVjQuqgk |
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anthracitedub Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007 Posts: 3241 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:43 am Post subject: Re: Connecting rods have been modified |
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Thanks to you all for the info. I think those rods will just go to the scrap pile and I'll get the other set of rods prepped for this engine.
Looks like some one started off with a good idea but just went about it a little crude. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Connecting rods have been modified |
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now your learning!!!! OR make a tool out of one or more or well them all togeather to make a chair like berg did.probably the best usage for oe vw parts,furniture and lamps. |
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Wreck Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014 Posts: 1218 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Connecting rods have been modified |
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on the subject of oil squirters , can someone tell me where the Porsche squirter is fitted on #3 cylinder on a Type 4 ?
I practiced drilling the main bearing saddles on an old cracked T1 case ,all good I thought . then went to do my Type 4 case and have found the case is very different (ended up drilling a small pilot hole through the case ) . |
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Dauz Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010 Posts: 1790
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Connecting rods have been modified |
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mark tucker wrote: |
now your learning!!!! OR make a tool out of one or more or well them all togeather to make a chair like berg did.probably the best usage for oe vw parts,furniture and lamps. |
Blasphemy! |
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