Seriously thinking going electric

[Abscate]

That Bug will work out to about 3.5-4 cpm at those stated numbers of range and capacity. That's about 1/2 fuel cost of gas right now.

The bigger future of transport is in autonomous high utilization of shared resources, that is much bigger than electric vs gas.
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[Waldi]

People are too individual. It will take dekades of evolution to change the mind.
You can see this in your post.
Speaking about big future, but thinking about individual costs.

Who cares about some autonom driving vehicles.
How long do you think it will take ppl driving in south America, Africa, India, China with autonom vehicles ?

How many wars will be done for Oil and Gas till electric vehicles take over ?

[Abscate]

Economics will drive it much faster than decades. Why have a $25-50,000 thing which you use 5% of the time sitting in your driveway? It won't matter if it's gas or electric ( and electric is the future, certainly, I agree)

I already have suburban neighbors who have gotten rid of car # 2 for ride sharing.
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[Waldi]

"Economics will drive it much faster than decades."

Not as long it is economical sell wapons and make wars for oil.

[skills@eurocarsplus]

well, good luck. not saying it isn't possible, but all of the backyard hero's on the internetz better brush up on this stuff.....I have over 200 hours in training on just the electrical parts of hybrids....a drop of sweat at the wrong time will kill you. working on this stuff is the equivalent of beings a high voltage linesman....

then if you actually use the thing...corrosion becomes a huge problem...resistance and hybrids don't play nice together. is it possible? yes but your 300 hours into a conversion and 20K out of pocket will buy a lot of gas. suppose you need to see what the ROI is.....

and if you are looking for resale value, you will loose your ass. that bug posted for sale for 10K....it's a 5-7K car in stock form....at best. no one will overpay for it, so if you build it, you'd better love it cuz you're going to own it for a long, long time
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[danfromsyr]

there is NO ROI in electric. there barely is in household solar, certainly none in a DIY (or bought) electric conversion
wars were fought before we needed oil & gas.

people ride sharing and giving up a 2nd car are house poor (or other lifestyle choices). buying and taking credit with $$ they haven't yet earned.with kids in XYZ activities and programs..

do it because YOU believe in it, but not because it makes any financial cents.

the people making $$ off of electric are the same ones who made the $$ in a gold rush. the general store & bankers. people who sell the goods to people who are taking the risks


cheapest way to get thru smog and save the planet is a Diesel and a Waste Veggie Oil system. the populace won't give up their fried foods in any near century. you'll always have fuel even when the gas runs out.
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[Gruppe B]

[Waldi]

"wars were fought before we needed oil & gas. "

LOL yeah, for money.
Wait, what was it before money ? Foot

But today it is money and oil.

"cheapest way to get thru smog and save the planet is a Diesel and a Waste Veggie Oil system. the populace won't give up their fried foods in any near century. you'll always have fuel even when the gas runs out."

Tell me something. I drive since 12 years with raps oil.
But do you realy believe there is anoph veggie oil for all cars on the earth ?
Can you imagine how a city smells if all cars drive veggie oil ?
And do you realy think your politics will allow you to drive something else than oil in the next future ?

[danfromsyr]

Oh shyt you think were talking about everyone? I thought it was just the OP's original problem. hassal of SMogging in California his VW.


the only solution for everyone and to save the planet.. involves (most) everyone going to some place else..


wars were fought over religion, food, women, personal agenda.

still are.

still always will be.

can't change the human beast..
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[Ahwahnee]

[pablum]

[skills@eurocarsplus]

seeing this has taken a huge detour....

what do you think makes EVERYTHING we touch a reality? oil....period. from making the solar arrays to harvesting the raw materials....oil is what makes it happen, period.

I have yet to see an electric dump truck....or excavator. all of the components needed to make electric power "real" will start wars etc over the precious metals to make this stuff....so the reducing war argument is out the window.

how much pollution goes into the manufacturing of Pv cells, copper wire, electric motors etc? lots.....you need heat to make the metal at the foundry for these components.

you still need grease and oil to lubricate these things....and coolant. since the beginning of time man has looked for perpetual energy....it doesn't exist on a large enough scale to be efficient. take ethanol....it takes more energy than it's worth to make....

I dunno. to each their own. I will keep my cars powered by exploding dinosaurs while some will go out and chase lightning bolts.

I would like to go on record to say that I like clean air and water as much as the next guy. the technology does exist to with desalination plants to make clean water....the issue is the cost to do so, and what to do with the leftover salt.....you cant dump it back into the ocean...the salton sea is a perfect example of this.

the problem is we need to be smart enough to take it without mother nature getting pissed off.....
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[Ahwahnee]

[Abscate]

[MsTaboo]

As one poster pointed out, we use oil for a great many purposes. The thing is, oil and coal ARE finite resources. When they are gone there goes a whole lot of other products we tend not to think about, and not just plastic, from pharmaceuticals to fertilizer. This resource has to last for the foreseeable time humans may live on this planet!

It makes more sense to conserve this resource for those uses than to just burn willy-nilly.
While it's true there is more energy condensed into fossil fuels than just about anything else (the exception is nuclear, but that is it's own can of worms) do we really need 500-600 hp cars? How about NASCAR? Seriously?, going around in circles as fast as you can? The way we squander these precious fuels is criminal.
Yes, we will continue to have gas power vehicles and machines for the foreseeable future. But is it really asking too much to consider conservation of this resource? The development of competing modes of power for our vehicles is more important than just less pollution (as important as that is!)

Yes, I love our Vanagon camper and the places it takes us. We also try to conserve elsewhere in our lives. Passive solar house, solar hot water, work from home, etc. It may not be a lot but we try.

Take a minute to consider how our grand children and their children will think of us while looking back at our times. We know all about the problem, we can foresee the need to conserve, yet we continue to squander in the name of profits and selfish fun. Think they might hate us?

And one more point before I get off my soapbox. The biggest problem we face is ourselves. There are just too many people.
Overpopulation is THE number one problem facing our world. Every other conflict stems from this simple fact. Planned parenthood is not a bad thing.

So back to the original point of this thread, converting a Vanagon to run on electricity. Go for it, every little bit helps get us where we need to go.
Building solar and electrical power goodies takes energy?, why yes it does!, but then so does manufacturing a gas engine and the energy used to refine the oil it will burn. The energy used to build solar is spent once.
Besides, what's the difference what he does with his van, if he were talking about stuffing a 500hp engine in there he would have lots of cheers from the peanut gallery. And how practical is that?
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Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec

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[Merian]

the atmosphere and oceans will go before coal does

an electric Vanagon will be difficult to achieve in the next few years, but after that such vehicles will be common

BTW large dump trucks and excavators are always electric - ironically they are used in coal mines
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[danfromsyr]

skills hit the answer right in the keyhole.


Lightning, if we could only develop a way to harness and distribute the power of lightning
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[Abscate]

Sharknados.....free energy and guilt free shark fin soup...
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[Waldi]

"what do you think makes EVERYTHING we touch a reality? oil....period. from making the solar arrays to harvesting the raw materials....oil is what makes it happen, period."

And 200 years ago it was wood and carbon.
We dont nee oil.
We just need brain and Energie.

[vwwestyman]