Help - no start after engine drop/re-install

[Whaanga]

Hello All,

I need a little help here - I removed the engine/tranny from my 73 bus and been working on it for the past month. I put it back in this past week and now it will crank but not fire. The engine is a 1.7 that was originally in a 914 from 1970.

I know that I'm getting spark at the coil and the fuel pump is working and sending fuel to the carb. I put a teaspoon of gas in the carb and cranked but to no avail. Am a newbie so don't have a lot of experience to depend on. What other components can I trouble shoot? I'm wondering if the timing is off (though I don't know). I did remove the dizzy but never removed the cap or other components. The rotor moves when I turn the engine at the alternator.
Before the engine pull, it was running well. I'm just trying to figure what I disturbed to make it not start. The bus came with a single Weber Carb which (after a tune up by a pro shop) has been working well.

After the install, every nut and bolt, electrical connection, vacuum line, were accounted for. I took lots of photos and make several drawings so am confident everything got put back as designed.


As a quick background, here's the work I did over the past month (as documented here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=677577&highlight=)

Cooling:
Replaced missing cooling flaps/T-stat
Replaced cooling fan (missing two fins)

Fuel Tank:
Pulled tank - cleaned/service
Replaced: sending unit, screen/spigot, vapor lines, filler neck

Tranmission:
Replaced: shift gear plate, shift ball, shift rod boots and plastic bearing, replaced gear oil (stinky stuff), had fly wheel resurfaced, new pilot bearing, flywheel O ring, felt ring, bolt plate, set the endplay

Oil System/seals
Replaced: oil cooler seals, rear main seal, cooling fan seal, new oil pressure switch

Other tasks: new manifold gaskets, new engine mounts, cleaned/painted all tin work, new alternator belt.

Any help/advice/guidance would be much appreciated.


Though I don't know if these are too helpful, here are a few photos after the install:

[Tcash]

I did remove the dizzy.
If you loosened the dist. clamp. You need to static time it.
Or if you has a helper. Have them crank it, while you turn the distributor.

Use the 76 and later 7.5 degree mark as your initial timing mark.
This video will give you the procedure to static time the engine.

Classic VW Beetle Bug Ghia Bus How to Time Set Volkswagen Engine Timing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=787INwvir24

Vintage VW Training Film - Ignition Timing Part 1-2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm4OmiVH2J0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIrA4iWkhbE

Good luck
Tcash

[lil-jinx]

You say you removed the distributor and not the cap,but the rotor turns when the engine is turning over,you must of had the cap off to see that,looks to me like the ignition wires are not in the proper position o the cap,you need to turn the engine to # 1 tdc and remove the distributor cap to see where the rotor points to and that should be the #1 position of the ignition wires,I think it should be around the 5 o'clock position whereas yours looks to be at the 11 o'clock position.Does it back fire or or attempt to start when cranking?
This may help

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6617648#6617648
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1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.

[Wildthings]

Rotate the wires 180° around the cap and see is it fires, if not you can always move them back to where they were.

[aeromech]

Did you turn the engine over while the distributor was removed?
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[Whaanga]

No - now I think of it, I did not have the securing nut cranked all the way down when I first tried to start it up.

[Whaanga]

I double checked the long bolt that controls the rotation of the dizzy - it is very tight and solid. I also reversed the spark plug wires on the dizzy 180* and on crank it backfired a couple of times but that was it. Put the wires back and cranked again but no fire.


AND....as I think back, when I did have the engine out I did rotate it by hand about one rotation when adjusting the endplay - perhaps this is the issue here.

[Wasted youth]

Sounds like your timing is way off from the little goof with the distributor or spark plug wire placement. No biggie, you can solve that.

Did you follow Tcash's advice above?

Maybe you should start over. Find TDC (Top Dead Center) for No. 1 cylinder (No. 1 is found: When facing the engine from the back of your bus, you are now looking forward just like when you are driving. No. 1 cylinder is forward, right side.

Hopefully, my following instructions are correct. Y'all jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong!

Find Top Dead Center No1: Remove spark plug and insert 1/4 wooden dowel into the spark plug hole. Hand rotate the engine. As the piston travels upward towards it's compression stage, the dowel will start to move. Don't let the dowel bind or break. Keep rotating the engine until the most upward travel is achieved. Play with the dowel by using it to 'feel' where the top of the piston is. Then, remove the valve cover, look to ensure both Intake and Exhaust rocker arms are loose, which means both valves are closed. This is a BASIC method for determining TDC No. 1

Now, go back to your distributor. The rotor needs to point at the thin notch impressed onto the rim of the distributor body, NOT the big notch cut out of that rim that is meant to index the cap. This notch I'm talking about is somewhat faint.

The notch and rotor, when lined up, should roughly point toward the No. cylinder, if I recall correctly. I bet yours is not.

If it is, then you need to verify the firing order alignment of your plug wires: 1-4-3-2

[Whaanga]

Thanks all. I have to ID TDC first. Will follow the instructions given here and report back.

[Whaanga]

Ok - I did the pencil in cylinder #1 test. When the piston was at its highest point, the cooling fan marks were at 6:00 as seen in the photo. The rotor is pointing at the #1 spark plug wire (at about the 10:00 position). Am I all turned around here? I thought the #1 wire was supposed to be above the little notch in the dizzy lip?

[Wildthings]

Not sure what the marks on your fan are but they are not TDC or other timing marks. You should have a tiny "v" shaped notch on the forward rim of the pulley. The "v" mark is very small and you may need to run your fingernail along rim of the pulley to find it.

You also must remove the 1-2 valve cover and verify that both rockers will wiggle a bit, if you don't do this you will not know if you are on #1 or #3 as the fan is in the same position when the crank is at TDC for either cylinder.

[Wasted youth]

Edit...

[Tcash]

thnx mayor ratwell
Find Type 4 Timing Mark
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FindTimingMark.html

[Wasted youth]

Type 4 pulley timing marks can be confusing, which is why I did not mention that. Sometimes people stamp or inscribe marks that are off. Of course, you should learn about that, but you might wish to forget about the pulley marks for now.

It seems to me your distributor is off by 90* and the rotor is pointing to No. 3 when it should point to No.1 near the 2:00 o'clock position

[Wildthings]

[Whaanga]

Thanks for all the hand holding here. This topic has really been perplexing for me but I'm slowly coming out of the fog.

Using Ratwell's 42mm measurement, I found this mark - am I in the fight path?

[lil-jinx]

those white marks are punch marks,made to crimp the pulley lip over the balance weights.
TDC on the compression stroke can be found by sticking your finger in the spark plug hole,you will fell the compression build as the piston comes up.
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.

[Wildthings]

[Tcash]

Link

[Wasted youth]

I find it odd that his video talks about finding TDC for No. 1 then completely ignores any viewing of the rocker play on that cylinder. He then goes to No. 3 and 4 to show rocker movement, states that No. 4 exhaust is moving so we can't be at No.1 TDC. But it's never established that the No. 1 piston is truly at TDC No. 1 (which is what he stated he was looking for), and does not show the rockers for No. 1 being slack. Instead he shows us varying movements of No. 3 and 4 cylinders while stating that clearly indicates No. 1 is at TDC.

Can't say I've ever had that explained that way, nor have I ever arrived at that conclusion using that process.

What am I missing here? I guess he is stating that because of the valve action seen on No. 3 and 4, then No. 1 can only be at TDC?

If No. 1 is at TDC because I can feel it rise all the way up, and both rocker arms are slack indicating both I and E valves are shut, then what else could No. 1 be getting ready to do except fire?