1976 Type 4: new carb buying advice

[rik-shaw]

Getting everything running on our complete rebuild over here in Ethiopia has me revisiting the woeful carb situation.

Currently the stock PDSIT 2/3 carbs are on, but they have been hacked on for 40 years. I did get a "rebuild" kit last year for them and did what I could, but the bushings on the butterfly are really sloppy, there is a wooden dowel glued in where the central cutoff solenoid used to be (it is long gone), the left and right cutoff jets are gone (plugged), the central fuel enrichment is gone (plugged), and the chokes are disabled and locked wide open (disabled).

It could be my new cam, but I can't get it to idle very nicely, even following the IAC guide (again a lot of pieces are missing). It won't idle much above 600. It seems to run decently once up to cruising RPM, but at idle effectively the central mixture screw and central idle speed screw (bigger one for air adjustment) do NOTHING (or next to nothing) running them the full range. According to the guide, I have to crank down the 2 mixture screws to about 1 1/4 turns out in order to not be too rich.

In short, there is a lot not right with them, and I think it would be worth it to throw in the towel on these carbs and go for a different setup. I am looking at the aircooled.net dual weber setup: http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Dual-Weber-ICT-Carb-Kit-All-Engines-Redline-p/redline-dual-ict.htm I wonder if I need to manually add a balance tube or anything, or if I pay for "setup" from ACN will they be ready to bolt on (yes they will still need adjustment....). One thing really awesome about the PDSIT system is the "reference hose" where you know if you are rich or lean based on what happens to the idle when you have "finger on" or "finger off". Any such field setup for the Webers?

I also see some using the EMPI 47-7412-0 EMPI Dual EPC 34 CARB KIT Kit (cheaper, but also cheaper But some seem quite happy with that choice?

Any other advice out there? I do know that IAC / Colin says there are features of the PDSIT 2/3 that aren't going to be with me anymore with replacements, but as noted above I think those "advantages" don't currently exist as so much has been stripped out of my current carbs and they are not running right (again esp. at idle)

FYI I am at almost 8000 ft and it is mostly city driving in a third world context. Getting up to 50mph is relatively rare, with going over 60mph very rare. Mostly it is hilly with tons of stop and go traffic

Rik
1976 Type 4 Bus
Ethiopia



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[busdaddy]

The ICT's from AC.N will likely be a good choice for your needs, any single throat duals will need a balance tube to idle smoothly, you can Tee into that for your brake vacuum as well. The lack of a "reference hose" isn't insurmountable, there are other ways to determine idle mixture, you could even Tee in a tiny hose to the balance tube to replicate Colin's method.
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[rik-shaw]

[busdaddy]

I'm not here all the time, you just caught me during lunch

I don't know if the manifolds come pre tapped, Email John and ask him, explain your situation and he can likely do it for you, he comes off as a little cranky sometimes but he really does know his carbs.

One thought I just had was filtration, I assume there's alot of dust where you are?, there's few aftermarket air filters that are as good as the VW system and none are as quiet, ask John about what will work best for your conditions.
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[crushie]

I purchased a weber 34 ict kit, and the manifolds are tapped with two holes per manifold.
It was a cb performance kit.
Horrible after sales service from them though.
I would highly recommend you tear down the carbs and clean and check them thoroughly
before you install them.
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1974 VW Combi 1800 Auto. Weber 32/36

[TomWesty]

You might also check with Jeff at Kaddie Shack. I am running Solex dual 40s on my 1776 and am teed into the balance tube for brake vac. As with any carb you will have to play with jetting, but these are dead simple carbs and Jeff has offered good support even though I got the engine with carbs already on it and didn't buy them from him. He has tech articles on his website to help with adjustment etc. Not trying to take anything away from John at all, I have learned a lot from his website and am compiling a shopping list for Aircooled.net......
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[rik-shaw]

Here is John's reply from AC.N regarding the difference between the 34 ICTs and the 40 IDFs:

[busdaddy]

Well the IDF's are a better carb, no doubt. But they are more complex and use twice as many jets, they are perfect for performance minded owners wanting to squeeze every last horse out of thier engine and offer much greater fine tuneability. The ICT's are crude in comparison but satisfy the needs of the owner who just wants thier bus to run reasonably well with a minimum of fiddling around, eventually you'll get some wear in the shafts but that still usually takes years to happen. (I'm assuming you aren't worried about how they behave in cold weather).
Most ICT installations I've dealt with need a balance tube to idle smoothly on all 4 cylinders, the IDF's don't need a tube.
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[TDCTDI]

[rik-shaw]

Thanks for more detail. It doesn't seem like the IDFs are my style: we just need to putt around town and I think the ICTs seem plenty adequate.

But now I am also curious about the 34mm PDSIT Solex option at AC.N: basically it is going to be the same money as the Weber ICTs.

Also, now that I look more at the Kadron option at Kaddy Shack they sure do seem like a quality option. However, after I price it for my engine I am at $609.

So in summary:

ac.n: Dual 34mm PDSIT Solex: $390 + setup $50 + 28mm venturis $30 = $470

ac.n: Dual Weber 34 ICT: $420 + setup $50 = $470

kaddie shack: "TURN KEY" Type 2/4 SVDA-modified Rebuilt/Re-bushed Carb Kit = $609 (for 2000cc engine)

kaddie shack: BRAND NEW Kadron/EMPI/Solex 40/44 Carb Kit - Type 2/4 = $679 (for 2000cc engine)

ac.n: Dual Weber 40 IDF: $740 + setup $80 = $820

Boy, price creep in action! I started by looking at the EMPI 47-7412-0 EMPI Dual EPC 34 CARB KIT Kit for $340 (but I would need jets, balance tube, etc .... I think I have struck these from the list so didn't include them above).

Probably the Weber 34 ICTs hit about right for what I need for a reasonable price... but???

I am looking for simplicity, quality, reliability: just like a VW Bus should be...

Regards,

Rik

[busdaddy]

Price creep indeed!
Another option for your list is a pair of used stock carbs from the classifieds that you send to Volkzbitz for a rebush and cleaning, you already have all the linkage, manifolds and airfilter system for those.
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[Clatter]

[rik-shaw]

When I ordered the cam I had to rush as I had a traveler ready to bring it.... but in hindsight it may not be the ideal one for me. So yes I do realize a bit of the loping at idle is due to the cam design.

Regarding getting replacement Solex 32-34 PDSIT 2/3 carbs and then rebushing, etc. I am a bit hesitant mainly because again while I have the linkage and all the air intake setup, etc., I am missing cutoffs, etc. that may or may not come with the replacements. And I am sure they will need new seals all around, etc. If I got them and sent them to Volksbitz as busdaddy suggests can they take care of all of that? I haven't dealt with them before so will need to look them up.

I guess I have cold feet fearing that even after all of this I still have unknowns from 40 year old carbs that will leave me in not much better of a place than I am at currently.

I am seeing that there is a guy in the classified dealing just with rebushed type 3 throttle plates. Maybe my current carbs (which have good seals now but again no cutoffs, disabled chokes, etc.) would be just fine if I swap out throttle plates? Not sure if there is someone doing this for the 32-34 PDSIT carbs or not? I likely won't have the time before I go but maybe I should have pulled the throttle plates and bring them with me?

I will be in the US, btw for 1 month (traveling today back), but I won't have lots of time to be tracking stuff down so would like to come to some sort of plan in the next week.

Thanks again guys!

Rik

[fez68]

I have a stock solex 34pict 3 for my 1600 from volksbits. he does an amazing job. you would think it was factory brand new. all bead blasted inside and out and everything replaced new . highly recommended. and original the german solex is the best way to go.

my buddy pulled a 75 camper out of a guys yard once and that thing ripped no tuning nothing with the stock carbs.

whatever you do don't get a single webber

[orwell84]

I ran Weber 34 ICT's for a long time and was happy with them. They were easy to set up and stayed tuned once I got them synced. The manifolds were tapped and came with elbow connectors so it was fairly easy to plumb into the balance tube for providing vacuum to the brake booster and my auto trans.

I am currently running a Weber progressive and plan to have my stock PDSIT carbs rebuilt. I am happy with the progressive though it's not perfect. I do mostly highway driving in summer months so the occasional flat spot off idle doesn't really bother me. I wouldn't recommend it for a lot of stop and go driving, though a number of people have set it up to work for them. I think the issues with them have been overstated. If I had to drive my bus in a 3rd world setting though, that's what I would choose; cheap and anvil simple.

I gave up on my stock carbs years ago because it kept coughing up accelerator pump jets. The cutoff solenoids are also too big and heavy for the bores they are screwed into, so if yours are missing, it's probably because after years of vibration they strip their threads and leak.

[rik-shaw]

I think you guys are getting the picture: no high speed cruising here.... lower torque and stop and go traffic (watch out for that donkey! watch out for that lady! watch out for that pothole! watch out for that random guy carrying a big load crossing that is looking the other way!) while possibly in a traffic jam going up an incline is "par for the course". So yes you can tell me again I chose the wrong cam

So with stock carbs without the cutoffs am I asking for trouble? (if everything else is repaired, esp. new throttle bushings) Meaning does it affect idle, mixture, etc. or are they only there to make sure the engine "shuts off"? I will need to read the IAC posting again to appreciate what they do, as I skipped over those parts as I had no cutoffs

My impression for the past few years with the stock PDSIT carbs is that they are fiddly, esp. when you have a woeful situation like mine with parts missing: you need everything together to work as designed or you have a headache.

I think I am getting a good feeling for the "right way to do it": namely stay "stock". I'll see what I can find in the classifieds, but again I am on a timeline as I need to travel back to Ethiopia on 25 July with some sort of carb solution in my suitcase. So if I can't get replacement PDSIT ready for install and shipped to me by then, I should do something else.

Maybe I should get the single barrel Webers (gasp) or even the EMPI (double gasp) with a LONG TERM plan of bringing back my PDSITs and having them rebuilt. So I would have 2 different setups?? This may be the "safest option" as I can be assured to have something that will work (to some degree) directly when I return, with a long term view to having properly running PDSITs as the best option?? Of course if I stay with my PDSITs it means "properly running PDSITs without cutoffs"....

Yes, yes, I am seeing divergent opinions here and I appreciate all of them: I guess carb decisions are akin to religion

Rik

PS. In the airport in Dubai now.... didn't have time to pull the throttle plates so....

[busdaddy]

The only function the cutoff solenoids perform is to prevent run on when you shut it off, if you are concerned omit them and stall it with the clutch if it ever decides to keep running when there's glowing carbon deposits in the engine (very rare).

For longevity and best filtration in harsh conditions you won't find anything better than the stock system, it'll take another 35 years to wear out the next set, or longer if you don't neglect them.
The added bonus with the OG carbs is you can set them up by the book and you know they will be perfectly tuned to your engine and vehicle, no guesswork or rejetting required, it's already been figured out by VW.
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[Shinnlinger]

I have been hearing about this Volksblitz guy and he sounded great so I assumed big $ but in fact his price list seems quite reasonable. It looks lie he may even have complete rebuilt units in stock for not much more than having him rebuild your units so it may be an option for you. http://www.volkzbitz.com/prices---contact-info.html

[rik-shaw]

Thanks for the link to Volkzbitz: hard to beat that price esp. since I have everything I will need already!

I'll go that route, and next time back I can either donate my current carbs or get them re-done for a set of spares!

So I'll just continue to acknowledge my cam will give me a bit of a lope at idle but with these rebuilt carbs it should be a lot better than I currently am experiencing.

Rik

[TomWesty]

Wow, I never would have thought the Kaddies would be more expensive than the 34 ICTs.
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