#15 ignition wire help

[Shorttgm]

So I've had this beetle project car for a while now and am so close to having it runnning, though now I've encountered an issue i can't figure out. To the best of my knowledge everything is wired appropriately according to the jbugs wiring diagram for a 1969 vw beetle, with the exception of it having an alternator. I've put an in line fuse on the #15 ignition wire that plugs into fuse #2. When I turn the car on and activate the turn signal the inline fuse blows, everytime. I also engaged the emergency flasher switch, which cause #9 fuse to blow. I've switched out relays, double checked wiring, bulbs, you name it, and my ideas have become exhausted. The only thing I haven't tried is removing the inline fuse.

To preface these malfunctions. I had tested the electrical several days ago and it all worked fine. As I waited on a part to come in I adjusted the steering column down (the part under the fuel tank) to give clearance for the steering wheel. After this bam! Blowing fuses. I've checked the turn signal switch and ignition switch for damage and see nothing, though to be honest I wouldn't really know what to look for. I have electrical testing equipment but again am unsure what to look for. Any ideas, pointers, tips, anything really would be appreciated.

I will be happy to send photos and answer any questions one might have.
This may be a completely obvious thing that my inexperience blinds me from!

[VW_Jimbo]

I once had one of the four skinny screws become loose and ground out the signal switch circuitry. I ended up removing the steering wheel and tightening those down. Then adjusted the gap between the steering wheel and TS housing once again. My problem was solved.

On another one, I had the TS switch pinch one of the wires when fully installed. They were ran outside of the channels the switch has with the tabs. You should check there also. Something sounds like it is being pinched.
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[allenw]

I had the black wire #15 coming from the ignition switch over heat from using a timing light off the the #15 wire at the coil causing it to get hot from massive amp draw from a PO installing a smaller gauge wire. It then grounded out on the steering column on the right side.

[David_nc_72std]

What size fuse did you use for the in-line fuse? That circuit feeds 2 fuses in the fuse panel in addition to the lights in the speedometer, ignition coil, backup light, automatic choke, and if you have it an idle-cutoff solenoid.

You might try disconnecting the wires to the turn signal switch in the steering column, and seeing if the emergency flashers will work then.

[Shorttgm]

The inline, and all other fuses are the white 8 amp. I will look for pinching and tight wires again. I will also test the emergency flasher and will report back. Thank you all for the help!
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1969 VW Beetle

[David_nc_72std]

The in-line fuse from ignition switch to fuse panel needs to be a lot bigger than 8 amp, I doubt even a 16 amp would be enough for reliable operation. That circuit powers two 8 amp circuits in the fuse panel (turn signal, horn, wiper motor, and brake lights), as well as the backup lights, ignition coil, choke heater, and idle cutoff solenoid.

Don't think the inline fuse is the source of the problem, fuse #9 is a separate circuit, so sounds like something in the turn signal / emergency flasher. The inline just blew before the fuse for the turn signal circuit (fuse #1 from the wiring diagram).

[ashman40]

Please check the following things:

1) Where have you connected the #15 wires at the #1 & #2 fuses?
Here is a pic of a 10-fuse fuse box like that used in '69:



Notice the brass bars along the top of the fuse box connecting pairs of fuses together. This allows one wire to power two fuses. This is the INPUT side of the fuse box. Current comes into this side of the fuses and OUTPUTs from the other side. Make sure the black #15 wire from the ignition switch connects to this INPUT side of the #1 or #2 fuse. Also, your #15 black ignition coil wire should also connect to the INPUT side of the fuse box. Normally the ignition coil wire is connected to the INPUT side of the fuse box. Yes, it is NOT protected by the fuses. If your ignition coil wire is accidentally connected to the OUTPUT side of the fuse it will increase the current passing thru the fuse and could end up blowing it when the turn signals are turned ON. Keep the in-line fuse on the ignition coil wire (not the ignition switch wire), just make sure it is connected to the INPUT side of the fuse box.

2) Since both the turn signal fuse and the E-Flasher fuse are blowing it is an indicator that there is a short somewhere in the turn signal circuit. The output of the E-Flasher switch and the turn signal switch come together then share the wiring that runs to the corner lights. Find the two 4-way junctions where the black/white (left) and the black/green (right) wires all come together. At each of these junctions there should be one wire coming from the turn signal switch and one wire coming from the E-Flasher switch. Remove these wires from the junction and test each for ground. If you find one of these wires is grounded investigate.
If neither is grounded, remove the other two wires from the junctions. One will run to the front corner, the other to the rear. Remove all turn indicator bulbs from the corner assemblies and then test the black/white and black/green wires for ground. Without the bulbs installed there should be no path to ground.

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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[Shorttgm]

Update! Both black coil and ignition wire were on input side of fuse block. Inline fuse was removed from #15 ignition switch wire and placed on #15 coil wire. Turn signals and emergency flashers work without blowing fuses. I did not check the 4way junction wires for ground since the fuses stayed intact. I appreciate the help, thank you all very much.

The only thing I'm noticing now is the brake lights ( middle bulb, red and white wires) being engaged when the key is in the on position, with light switch disengaged, and a fast blinker when indicating right. Any pointers for this?

I will preface that with the lack of reverse light bulbs and wiring (there is no switch on the nosecone), and a front left signal bulb needing replaced. I have also placed a ground wire from the license light to the 2nd available ground tang in the engine compartment next to the right tail light ground. I have checked grounds, and polished terminals.
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1969 VW Beetle

[ashman40]

[Cusser]

[Shorttgm]

Post fuse swap. After successfully testing the turn signal and emergency flasher switch, I noticed the speedo turn indicator wasn't lighting, and piggybacked that wire off the the turn signal relay 49a terminal (it was previously on the KBL) as jbugs suggested, and it worked correctly. Other than that I jiggled a few wires and screwed the turn signal switch in . . . Again. Maybe that made a difference?

Upon further inspection of the burnt out left turn indicator I found the light bulb had melted or corroded into the housing. Got it out cleaned it up, greased it. There should be a ground wire right? Where does the ground go, with the headlight ground in front of the fuel tank?

Also, The right side indicators were both functioning.

I'll inspect the brake switches, and lights (had to get replacements) tomorrow. The brake switch wires are split into three 'sets', and the wire colors deviate from Jims diagram. I do however think they are plugged in differently, like one 'set' per switch then one splits, where as Jim's diagram has each 'set' split.

Thank you all for helping a gal out!
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1969 VW Beetle

[ashman40]

In '69 the original MC may have come with three (3) brake switches. Each switch had 2-prongs. Two were for brake lights and one was the brake warning light switch.
After '69 VW changed to two switches (3-prong each). If the MC was every replaced, the replacement would have been to use the later MC w/ two switch positions and re-wire the switch wiring to work with the two 3-prong switches.

Do you still have the original MC with three switches? THAT would be a very rare thing! I don't think you can even find those MCs any more.

Here is another diagram from Speedy Jim's site for the earlier MC:

The brake warning lamp switch was the center switch of the three.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[Shorttgm]

I just recently replaced the MC with two new 3prong brake switches. It is not original. I wired them according to the attached diagram, and probably read it wrong. This is when my brake lamps were on with the key in the on position.

When I wired them according to Speedy Jim's diagram (ashman) provided, the light problem was resolved. I feel like these issues are off topic of the #15 ignition switch wire, so maybe a new thread should get started as now the fast blinker problem still exists after replacing bulbs and such?

Again thank you all for the help! It is much appreciated!
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1969 VW Beetle