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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9955 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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We will see! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9955 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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I had some time on Sunday to mock up the cylinders and pistons, to see what issues were going to surface. Sure enough, as expected, found my case windows less than equal in heights.
Put the pistons in the cylinders and then installed all four of them. You can see the .008 inches of piston proturding out of the cylinder in this first picture.
Then I went through and installed the heads, torquing them down nice and equally, in four different steps and then double checking. This allowed the barrels to find their spots and allow me to see if there were any interference issues. There was an interference issue found between the on the 3,4 side. The pistons were coming up out of the cylinders by .008 inches, hitting the inside of the head.
1,2 side was the exact opposite, way more room. Pistons still down in their barrels at TDC, by .022. I like that a little better!
Stopped at that point. Disassembled sort of a long block and determined it was going over to either Rimco or Brothers for the windows to get surfaced, as the case has some uneven areas at the windows. One of the barrels was a not sitting on all of its surface, maybe only 300 degrees out of the 360 degrees it should be sitting on. Seems like a future issue which I so dont want to deal with.
Got everything in boxes ready to ship to the machine shop on Friday. I went ahead and gave myself 4 hours off to drive to Ontario to drop off at Brothers and make it back, in between the traffic times. Ontario is about an hour and a half drive, so three hours of driving, 30 minutes at Brothers and 30 minutes at Starbucks! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Last edited by VW_Jimbo on Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9955 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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Additionally, on Sunday, since I had to stop assembling the engine (thats me bitching). I decided to cc the heads, as I would like to set the CR at 9.1. I do not want to go too high, like into the 10s, because I want to drive this thing for a little while. I dont want to go too little, as I would like some pep when I get on it. Since the heads have some larger valves and I only run 91RON in my cars, do you guys think all that makes sense or am I building a gernade, that will go off in 5,000 miles? Should I set it up into the high 9, like 9.8 or go the full Monty and get it up in the 10s and just know that I will have fun with it till I drop a valve or poke a rod up through the case? Let me hear some thoughts, as it is a blank canvas - right now. By the end of March, it will be set.
So, CCd the heads. Exactly 61cc on each combustion chamber, with plugs set so no hard edges are at the interior of the chamber.
FYI. The head is sitting flat with the combustion chambers looking at the garage ceiling. So, took my 94mm plexiglass insert, spread a little axle grease around the perimeter and then pushed it down into the head. That grease smears out nicely and makes for a water tight seal. Yes, I used water. It is clear, odor free, non oily and cleans up with compressed air. Best part is the head is not steel, nor are the valves, so whoopie!!!! I have always used ATF, but this time, water. And I liked it!!! Not going back to ATF!
Get all the air out!
See that little air bubble? I almost did not, and the syringe was telling me I still had a small amount left to squeeze in there. Made me do a double take. You know those lines on those syringes need to be made BIGGER. My old eyes had a hard time seeing that. But, I would snap a picture with the phone and enlarge it, so that I could see it!!!
Does anyone know if that sharp edge of the combustion chamber should be chamferd a small amount, or should I leave it alone? It just is not rounded at all. Seems like that flame front would burn that edge up.?.? _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9955 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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Today, I took a personal day from work and drove 2 hours, in traffic (damn Caltrans), to drop off my engine parts at Brother’s machine shop. Dropped off the short block to get dynamically balanced, the pistons off to be balanced and the cylinders to get a better honing pattern on them instead of the cross hatch that came with them(old school). They told me a week turn around. Man, I absolutely hate waiting!!!!! But it will be soooo worth it! Because then I can finish building this thing!!! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Buggeee Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016 Posts: 4407 Location: Stuck in Ohio
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:28 am Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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VW_Jimbo wrote: |
Additionally, on Sunday, since I had to stop assembling the engine (thats me bitching). I decided to cc the heads, as I would like to set the CR at 9.1. I do not want to go too high, like into the 10s, because I want to drive this thing for a little while. I dont want to go too little, as I would like some pep when I get on it. Since the heads have some larger valves and I only run 91RON in my cars, do you guys think all that makes sense or am I building a gernade, that will go off in 5,000 miles? Should I set it up into the high 9, like 9.8 or go the full Monty and get it up in the 10s and just know that I will have fun with it till I drop a valve or poke a rod up through the case? Let me hear some thoughts, as it is a blank canvas - right now. By the end of March, it will be set.
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Erring on the side of reliability seems reasonable to me. It's not going to be earning it's keep winning purses at the drag strip so building a sacrificial engine to shave off some fraction of a second isn't necessary. It's already more motor than my foot will ever step into! _________________ 1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
SnowDaySyncro wrote: |
Every setback is an opportunity to learn stuff and to buy new tools. |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9955 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:34 am Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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Buggeee wrote: |
VW_Jimbo wrote: |
Additionally, on Sunday, since I had to stop assembling the engine (thats me bitching). I decided to cc the heads, as I would like to set the CR at 9.1. I do not want to go too high, like into the 10s, because I want to drive this thing for a little while. I dont want to go too little, as I would like some pep when I get on it. Since the heads have some larger valves and I only run 91RON in my cars, do you guys think all that makes sense or am I building a gernade, that will go off in 5,000 miles? Should I set it up into the high 9, like 9.8 or go the full Monty and get it up in the 10s and just know that I will have fun with it till I drop a valve or poke a rod up through the case? Let me hear some thoughts, as it is a blank canvas - right now. By the end of March, it will be set.
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Erring on the side of reliability seems reasonable to me. It's not going to be earning it's keep winning purses at the drag strip so building a sacrificial engine to shave off some fraction of a second isn't necessary. It's already more motor than my foot will ever step into! |
Thanks for the reply Buggeee! I am not shaving seconds, that’s what I helped do back in the 80s! Man, those head wrenches at the track, KNOW what to do and what to do it to! Need another .10 of a second, I’d hear something like, “twist this a quarter and retard the timing 1.25 degrees!” They just knew what to do and what to expect. We tweaked a car at one race, and as we were twisting a couple of camber nuts, the head honcho says to me,”Kiss this one good bye. After this run(big flipping smile on his face!) this car is our new pile of shit! That was the last 10 seconds that car ran. I loved that car! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Doktor Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2006 Posts: 94 Location: Croatia, Europe
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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:59 am Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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Nice project.
I really like how body got natural patina thru the years of sitting in Californian sun, and has not rusted out. _________________ 1970 VW 1300 Bug |
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57BLITZ Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012 Posts: 2385 Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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VW_Jimbo wrote: |
. . . I would like to set the CR at 9.1. I do not want to go too high, like into the 10s, because I want to drive this thing for a little while. |
The optimal C/R for your engine is directly related to your camshaft selection . . . don't pick a good sounding number. You want everything working in concert to achieve your desired goal . . .
BTW it's lookin' good with the wheels and new stance! _________________ Jesucristo es mi Señor y Salvador! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9955 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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57BLITZ wrote: |
VW_Jimbo wrote: |
. . . I would like to set the CR at 9.1. I do not want to go too high, like into the 10s, because I want to drive this thing for a little while. |
The optimal C/R for your engine is directly related to your camshaft selection . . . don't pick a good sounding number. You want everything working in concert to achieve your desired goal . . . |
Thanks for responding! Building it with an 80 stroke by 92 pistons. 120 engle cam. Whats your take on the compression? I am no expert but I wanted to drive it around town. I am scared as all hell to go higher than 9.4, but that is my inexperience talking. Please educate me. The car may hit the freeways now and again, but will most likely be a weekend cruiser. Maybe a grocery store run during the week.
Thanks for anything you respond back with! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9955 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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Doktor wrote: |
Nice project.
I really like how body got natural patina thru the years of sitting in Californian sun, and has not rusted out. |
Thanks! Yeah, that is just from sitting outside in Palm Springs, in the middle of an empty backyard. It did rust though. That rust did the luggage shelf in. That patina has slowly, I mean s l o w l y become okay with me. There are still days when I want to paint it back to Marina Blue, but I dont think that is going to happen. I will say, the majority, like 80 percent, of people that talk to me about my bug, love the patina. _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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57BLITZ Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012 Posts: 2385 Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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VW_Jimbo wrote: |
Thanks for responding! Building it with an 80 stroke by 92 pistons. 120 engle cam. Whats your take on the compression? I am no expert but I wanted to drive it around town. I am scared as all hell to go higher than 9.4, but that is my inexperience talking. |
You are in the ballpark according to this . . . https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Engle-W120-Type-1-Camshaft-1-1-or-1-25-Rockers-p/e6120.htm
If it were me, I'd also ask in the "High Performance" forum and hopefully Torbin will respond. _________________ Jesucristo es mi Señor y Salvador! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9955 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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57BLITZ wrote: |
VW_Jimbo wrote: |
Thanks for responding! Building it with an 80 stroke by 92 pistons. 120 engle cam. Whats your take on the compression? I am no expert but I wanted to drive it around town. I am scared as all hell to go higher than 9.4, but that is my inexperience talking. |
You are in the ballpark according to this . . . https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Engle-W120-Type-1-Camshaft-1-1-or-1-25-Rockers-p/e6120.htm
If it were me, I'd also ask in the "High Performance" forum and hopefully Torbin will respond. |
Thank you. I will post it up over there. _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9955 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:28 am Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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Got the day to work on the engine!!! Went and picked up my balanced engine parts from Brothers last Wednesday. They dynamically balanced the cranshaft, flywheel, pressure plate and pulley. They balanced the rods and pistons as well. They also rehoned my AA thickwalls so that the AA rings would seal.
So, started out by cleaning everything all over again. Worked a pipe cleaner through the oil passages of the case and crank to get the metal debri from machining out, and away from my new bearings!
Realized, finally, that whom ever clearanced the case for the stroker also upgaded the case with the HPX oiling galley enlargment around the cam bearing, so I cut all the lifters with three grooves each to bridge the two oil gallies on them. Cut the with my small cut off air grinder!
That my parts washer, Harbor Frieght with 15 gallons of nondiluted Simple Green in it. Makes the garage smell nice and fresh!
So, scrubed everything, rinsed with high pressure water, followed by compressed air drying, along with blowing that air through the oil passages. Everything is uber clean. Mounted the case onto the engine stand.
Placed the flywheel on the crank and losely tigthened the gland bolt. Stood the crank up,
Installed the number 3 bearing first. Then the big woodruff key.
then installed the gear set. This is tricky and must be done using heat. I went into the Kitchen (wife was out showing homes to clients) so I was safe. Dropped the crank gear onto the stove, on a low simmer, for 4 minutes,
then remove with large channel locks,
take out to garage and drop onto crank. Super easy!
Install spacer, and heat distributor gear,
drop it on the crankshaft, and tap into place.
Next up the circlip,
Followed by the number 4 bearing,
Then the oil slinger, dished side towards the pulley!
Follow that up with the pulley key. Connecting rods installed next and then dropped it in the case. installed the lifters. Tip: I use two springs to hold the lifters in the case that gets set onto the other case half. I made these from worn out welding archers. I cut the striker portion off. They apply pressure to the interior of the lifter to hold it in place when you flip the one half onto the other half. After the lifter were in place, I rolled the camshaft into place, twice. Missed lining up the dots the first time. My neighbor came by and wanted to see what I was up to. During the show and tell, I found the timing off by one tooth. Thank you Scot!
57Blitz, thank you for getting me to look at the compression ratio. Doing the research, I figured out the 120 was too far up in the rpm range for what I wanted for power response. Decided to go with the 110, to get it to be a great off the line car. I will set the CR to 8.7 or very close to there.
Cleaned the mating surfaces. Installed the orings on the case studs and applied a layer of Gasgacinch to both mating surfaces. Scot and I then losely install the nuts and bolts. I torqued everything to spec and WaaaLaaaa!
Installed the rear main seal, the flywheel and set the endplay. .004. Then installed my new CB super duper Gland bolt and torqued it to 250. I am thinking I should go back and hit it again, but up it to 300. What do you guys think? Thats why I bought the super duper bolt from CB in the first place!
Rolled the case over and installed the relief springs and pistons.
And finally, after measuring things all day, this is what I have.
And a list of more parts I need to get the rest of it together! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Disaster06 Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2017 Posts: 543 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:03 am Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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Wow! All cool to see this all come together. You make it look too easy😅
Great work👍 |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9955 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:17 am Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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Disaster06 wrote: |
Wow! All cool to see this all come together. You make it look too easy😅
Great work👍 |
Thanks! I started thinking about the number of engines I have built through the years, because of building this one. As I am going through the steps, all of those that taught me and showed me, kind of started flooding back into my mind. Good times! Great to remember them all. Makes me wonder where they are now?
It was easy, because all the hard work had already been done, during the hours after work, over the last several weeks. All the measuring, test fitting, manipulating, resizing, machining, assembly and disassembly. Things been together about 25 times. This was the final short block one!!! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7300 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:26 am Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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Same as what Disaster said. I love this thread! _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Frank Bassman Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2012 Posts: 893 Location: Miami
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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Nice.
Are those the oil booster springs?
I like the grooved plunger with stock springs.
Looking good.
-Frank |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9955 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:34 am Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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vamram wrote: |
Same as what Disaster said. I love this thread! |
Thanks! It has, and is, just fun to go through the steps of restoration and customization! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Ricksurfin Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2017 Posts: 295 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:37 am Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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Great thread Jimbo, thanks. Do you still do any rebuilds on the side? |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9955 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:40 am Post subject: Re: VW_Jimbo's 1970 Restoration |
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Ricksurfin wrote: |
Great thread Jimbo, thanks. Do you still do any rebuilds on the side? |
Yep! What are you looking at getting built? Probably should PM me. _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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